Comments: Chimps and Bonobos, Stupid is as Alpha Does
Anybody who has watched sports players knows that we are more similar to Bonobos than we like to admit. The most homophobic guys like to pat each others behinds after a touchdown. I find it funny. We bond like Bonobos, just not literally. Beers, Cigarettes, or something on the Television substitutes for sex. I wasn't blessed with homosexuality, but figuratively it is all around us. What is the most inflammatory, noxious cuss word in English? What does it literally mean when two men use it? The problem we really have is that we have both those kinds of chimps coursing through our blood. Humans still sometimes have that fear reaction. We can judge "friend's" intentions, but we have problems with "foe." Our fear reaction gets in the way of our thinking reaction. Nobody can negotiate when he's trying to establish whose the boss. Politicos remind me of a bunch of Alpha males fighting over whose the boss. They snarl and twist, and turn and out-maneuver each other like two groups of unrelated chimps having a meet near their territorial border. Common sense goes right out the door. Our common identity as Americans, human beings, etc... is not as important as establishing dominance to ease social anxiety. Something about getting power brings out the wolf in people. Posted by Chris at February 3, 2010 06:08 PM
Scott Fujita is a linebacker for the New Orleans Saints. He's gotten attention for being outspoken on the Mancrunch and Tim Tebow Superbowl commercials. He defended the ad for Mancrunch, a gay dating site, and questioned Tim Tebow's pro-life commercial. “By and large, the players are more tolerant than they get credit for,” he said. “It’s not a big issue. Some guys will think you are crazy for believing one way, but they’ll still accept you.” http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/03/sports/football/03fujita.html Posted by Queequeg at February 5, 2010 09:42 PM
I don't know if you've seen video of Bonobos. Its kind of amusing. Instead of handshakes or something, they rub uglies. They are smaller than chimps and have a matriarchal structure I think. A professor of mine told a pithy little story about Japan once - when the Chinese showed up, Japan was a matriarchal society. Relatively peaceful - disputes were settled without violence apparently and wealth was shared. The matriarchal structure was abhorrent to the Chinese. When the Japanese were "educated" in the ways of the continent, they switched to male rulers and started emulating the Chinese societal structure (btw - if you recall, Nichiren comments in one of his writings about a time in China when people did not know who their fathers were and let their hair and nails grow long - historians think those accounts that Nichiren was referring to describe a time in ancient Chinese history when the society was matriarchal - you know your mother, but not necessarily your father. That age is looked at very negatively in Chinese historical records. Cleary I think writes about this in a book called Twilight Goddess.) Anyway - as soon as the Japanese installed male rulers they had a period of war for about 70 years. Then they installed an empress, and peace. Then back to males, and war. It might be that half of the human population is civilized or maybe humanized (as opposed to domesticated - too many negative connotations in this context...) Posted by QQ at February 5, 2010 09:53 PM
And I just recalled a study I read about baboon colonies - Generally, they are patriarchal with an alpha male, or alpha male junta of sorts, ruling the colony. There was one being studied where the alpha males were all killed off - maybe poachers or something. This colony became a matriarchal colony, and even when the next generation of males was big enough to seize power, they didn't, and continued to allow the matriarchal system to continue. This colony apparently had less fighting, and when some young male orphans came along, they were allowed to join the colony, whereas if the Alpha males were around they would have been chased off. These new males were socialized into the matriarchal structure and at the time the article was written, it had been continuing like that for half a generation. Posted by QQ at February 5, 2010 10:00 PM
The original Japanese appear to have consisted of a mix of hunters, farmers and fishermen who arrived in the area in very ancient times and were refreshed mainly from the mainland (Korea) with immigrants. The Ainu are hairier than modern Japanese. Your professor had a real point. Probably technically the colonists were more Korean than Han chinese, but Korea was part of the earliest Chinese dynasties and the Royal Family (and all the ruling families) of Japan are descended from that original bunch of conquerors. They brought with them the legend that their founder was a descendent of the Sun Goddess, horses, and very Chinese/Korean style armor; and they imposed a feudal structure on Japan that was very cast oriented and centered around important founding families. I don't believe stories of matriarchal non-violence. It turns out that Bonobos are actually better at hunting other Bonobos or other Apes because they cooperate so well. The issue of collective behavior versus hierarchical behavior is not going to be resolved with a sound bite. Humans succeed because they cooperate and because they can resolve social tensions without the alpha male forgetting the issue at hand in order to stomp on a rival. Humans sometimes fail because our alpha males let their "wolf-side" emerge and get the better of them. A hundred years ago people celebrated the "wolf" side of Mankind, even as they exterminated wolves in exaggerated fear of their risk to lives and wildstock. Now we see that all that aggressiveness is a function of the adrenal gland and not always a useful or productive thing. Humans also fail because they don't let that fear factor weigh in when reading the impulses and actions of leaders who smile a lot, say what they want to hear, or use family images to create false familiarity. A Politician is not an uncle, brother, or a friend by role; but if he/she can convince you to personal loyalty he/she no longer has to do their job of representing you or getting you to evaluate and approve his/her plans. The result is that "bonobo like" leaders defraud, fool, manipulate us just as much as alpha males if let loose stomp on us. Our most accomplished leaders play on both instincts. Deception is part of animal social life and it works even better than stomping. Posted by Chris at February 6, 2010 09:53 AM
I recall reading about the Iroquois who were also matriarchal leaning - that sometimes it was women who were some of the most vocal advocates of aggression against rival tribes - its been a while since I read about them - but I recall something about vendettas being the motivation, and ultimately, it was the vendettas that contributed to the weakening of the Iroquois confederacy. So, fair enough, I don't idealize the matriarchal system. You mentioned the Bonobos being very good at killing other Bonobos because of their ability to cooperate - could that be how a matriarchal system vents its tendency to violence? Can't kill those in the group, so take it out on others. In contrast a hierarchical system generally associated with Patriarchy directs the violence within the society to maintain order? I know this is all too simplistic and doesn't really go anywhere. Just interested musings. You really do have great optimism in people. That we deserve better than the lot we have. I have abandoned hope. Too much wealth to be obtained gaming the present system. You'd have to seriously consider cutting heads off to change the status quo. I hate to admit, I have considered it might be a good idea to have a benevolent despot rule for a while - a Caesar - especially if that Caesar was me! I promise, I'd be a philosopher-king! Posted by QQ at February 8, 2010 03:51 PM
I grew up with this stupid song called "high hopes" about a goat who knocked down a dam. We really don't have an alternative. If we promote a King, the odds are, whether he/she starts out a tyrant or not he/she will morph into one. There are no panacea. This world isn't called the world of endurance for nothing. Politics, work, science and religion are all part of the same thing. Those who would run from the world fail. Those who are too bound to the way things are, also fail. We have no choice but to fight and ultimately fall as a shell -- like a leaf in the fall. But if we are going to die anyway we might as well go out well. To do that we need to live with honor and integrity. That is win win. If we live with honor and integrity then any afterlife will welcome us. If there is no afterlife, we will sleep well, and the roots and branches of our "tree" will bloom again. Posted by Chris Holte at February 8, 2010 04:39 PM
Besides how can one be too depressed when one is in so much good company. I just read an article by Paul Krugman that takes up on my "Polish Commonwealth" comments from an earlier thread. Posted by Chris Holte at February 8, 2010 07:12 PM