Real Life with Ryuei

I for one was not offended; it was pretty clear you were honestly expressing how you felt [As a bonus, I even mostly agree with what you said (how often does that happen!?)]. As someone who has to practice self-censorship almost whenever I'm talking to other people, I can attest that it's far from a desirable situation.

Well, I do understand being immersed in an
artist/author and seeing the world for a while
through that person's perspective. Last week I
was studying Klee and a painting I did Saturday
reflected his view and opened my own. So, as
a fellow creative person, I understand your
state of mind. It's a valid way to grow.

Your blog here contains your Buddhist name and
has a photo of you in robes. For some readers unaware of the basic tolerance in Nichiren Shu your comments may be misinterpreted as more official in expressing NShu's attitudes toward SGI. Or it may keep someone from reaching out in
friendship thinking they aren't respected because they're with SGI.

Actually, if one looks at the flourishing American NShu Sanghas, many
of them have former SGI members. So I don't
understand the slight smirk when some people talk of the SGI. It's like talking about Canadians or
White People. It isn't logical to generalize.

I take most seriously what the Lotus Sutra teaches-that no one is excluded in the promise of Enlightenment. Some of us are more a pain in the ass than others (me for one) but we are all included in that great possibility.

Anyway, just wanted to reply to your thoughts here. So many times what you've posted has taught and inspired me. I hope you continue to write.

In SGI they call it being a "good friend" when you refuse to be a blind cheering section and point out that you disagree. That is another good thing I learned early from my first Sangha, NSA (SGI).
Gassho, Patty

Hi Patty,

I appreciate your feedback actually.

I feel very ambivalent about the SGI and its members and former members to be honest. And maybe I shouldn't say such things being a priest of Nichiren Shu - but on the other hand if people can't get honesty from me than I am not a good Buddhist priest/minister or teacher anyway.

I know many fine former members of SGI. I am a former member of SGI in a way (though I was only with it for 2 years back in the 80's when it was still Nichiren Shoshu of America).

I know several fine members of SGI - but my honest observation is that they are increasingly being pushed to the fringe and/or having to swallow things that are becoming increasingly nonpalatable to them.

I have known at least one SGI member who I believe the organization's treatment of her contributed (perhaps greatly) to her death). Sorry but that is the way I feel about that.

I value the chance to meet and talk and chant with anyone who practices, studies and has faith in the Buddha Dharma, and esp. in the Wonderful Dharma of the Lotus Sutra and Namu Myoho Renge Kyo.

I used to enjoy dropping by the SGI bookstore here in SF and looking over their books (some of which - like the translations of Nichiren's writings or their Dictionary and some other things were and are helpful to me - though flawed). I liked chatting with some of the friendly people there about life and our shared connection with Nichiren Buddhism, just as I would do the same at other Buddhist bookstores in the city - like the one at Zen Center or the Fo Guan Sha temple. No other Buddhist group in SF has ever felt threatened by me. But ultimately several people at the SF Center made it clear that I was more than unwelcome there and in their eyes I was a threat and was just coming around to poach. In some ways I would fear for my life if I went back there due to the kind of hate that was directed at me (though honestly they were not threatening me - but still that kind of sectarian paranoia and fanaticism is not healthy).

So SGI is not something I could ever endorse. I think it is a very unhealthy organization in many ways and that they are increasingly becoming antithetical to the actual teaching and practice of Nichiren Buddhism.

But I still respect those who are hanging in there and finding ways to maintain their integrity and keep connected to what is centered on the actual teaching and practice of Nichiren Buddhism while trying to screen out the rest. I am not, and since at least 2005 or even before, have not tried to talk anyone into leaving SGI (and I never ever tried to do that when visiting an SGI bookstore).

When it comes to former SGI people wanting to check out Nichiren Shu it is a frustrating thing. I want them to feel welcome and I want them to check us out - but all too often I feel that they are asking for an apple when I have an orange and they can't understand why I won't give them an apple. There is a real miscommunication and the shared interests aren't really shared.

And that has been discouraging to me - because outside of former SGI people, there is hardly anyone who wants to give Nichiren Buddhism the time of day. We aren't Thich Nhat Hanh or Dalai Lama or Brad Warner or Spirit Rock type Buddhism. And those who have an interest in Buddhism and have run into Nichiren Buddhism very often confuse us with some encounter they had with SGI and are even more dismissive and wary.

Again, I really feel that SGI is going to go the way of Theosophy in this country (anyone see any Theosophical Society centers lately?). And I fear that when that happens there will be no other interest in this particular form of Buddhism and I am trying to reconcile myself to that.

I take heart that there are people out there who are looking for the "active ingredient" of Buddha Dharma that is universally applicable and can be isolated from its sectarian and ethnic coating and the "active ingredient" (which is something universal to all people) will be transmitted into our culture for those who are really serious about wanting something grounding and real and meaningful. I think that is what Glenn Wallis is trying to do.

Still - in the movie Repo Man, wherever Otto went he bought generic beer and potato chips and so on. Imagine a world where everything was just generic - just the active ingredient with no frills, flavoring, or anything. But what if its also universal and also part of the catalyst to be particular and individual? Perhaps "devotion" is universal and intrinsicially helpful (though admittedly intrinsically problematic) and devotion always requires more than just the generic.

Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
Ryuei

You wrote
"...Imagine a world where everything was just generic - just the active ingredient with no frills, flavoring, or anything. But what if its also universal and also part of the catalyst to be particular and individual? Perhaps "devotion" is universal and intrinsicially helpful (though admittedly intrinsically problematic) and devotion always requires more than just the generic." (end)

Well, heck yeah! I absolutely agree here.

In reading TNH's commentary on the Lotus Sutra,
Opening the Heart of the Cosmos, I read on page 31
on the One Vehicle,

"All living beings are able to become a Buddha but they all become Buddha in a different way, and each Buddha teaches in a different way."

We begin, we fall, we get up and we learn in our
own way what we need to learn to be ourselves
in an enlightened way, don't you think?

NSA was my first introduction in 1974. Granted, SGI can't hold a candle to that lumpy old group.

That was my first Sangha where I got my practice chops. I know I'm kind of Pollyanna and that annoys folks but I do believe in diversity and respectful tolerance.

I learned it by having to practice with other people so different from me that I'd never have
met them in any other context. People who were my
absolute opposites politically and culturally.
That day in and day out (literally in those times)
contact in many situations taught me to
see others beyond what Mr Parker, one of my favorite teachers, called our Halloween costumes.

But, had I not had my blinders knocked off by
my own "reform" work I'd still be turning a blind eye to most of the slow change of perspective in what came to be known as SGI.

The over the top stuff, like
the crazy uncle most families tolerate, all that extreme weirdness is overlooked by most members I think. I know that's how I practiced the final 8 or so years there.

So I have a big feeling of solidarity with anyone within SGI who feels like it's become a bad dream with the exception of local meetings because that's just how I felt. Well, local meetings may be all some people need. Or maybe they don't want
to leave but just investigate other ways to practice as a Nichiren Buddhist.

So, while I also have ambivalent
feelings about the organization called SGI,
I think some people just want a Sangha. And all
Sanghas are flawed because we are flawed.

We're not enlightened yet so we can still learn
together even with a with wildly different styles. Isn't it grand? Nice talking with you. Gassho, Patty

More and more I am coming to the conclusion that I really don't need to practice with any other Nicheren Buddhists. I can always chant on my own and I can randomly teach others to chant or chant with people who I have made connections with over the years. Thirty years ago Buddhism was a novelty is this country, but that is no longer the case. Most people are familiar with it and if you say you are a Buddhist, at least in LA, people barely raise an eyebrow. I think SGI was like a huge mother ship, some people are still on board running the ship and others like me have taken off in our own little boats. How and where we practice is now up to us. Right now I am totally enjoying connecting with various spiritual groups and I really don't feel that strong of a desire to actually attend official Nicheren activities. It's great having people over to chant, but I am perfectly fine just chanting by myself. Sure there are times I could use more structure, but I can do without if it means being where I don't want to be.

I think that for me, what I really liked about the chanting was the rhythm and energy of it but also the communal aspect of it. To be in a room full of people all happily and energetically chanting together in powerful harmony is just an unbeatable experience. That is why, despite all the many misgivings I had back in 1986 I did give NSA a try, and why I sought for other people to chant with after there was a mutual parting of the ways.

As much as I love communal, harmonious, rhythmic chanting - it is no good doing it if one must sacrifice one's intellectual, spiritual, or even emotional integrity. That is why I left NSA, and it is why I would never ever join or rejoin a group that would ask me to sacrifice my intelligence, good judgement, and integrity. The Won Buddhists, the Soto Zen people, and Nichiren Shu were all groups that I associated with after leaving NSA and none of them ever tried to colonize my mind/soul - each group in fact helped mentor me in ways that I will forever be grateful for.

But that doesn't mean that I still don't sometimes wish for that powerful communal chanting experience. I would even go into ecstatic trance states during sankirtan or Wiccan fesitvals back when I was in college and grad school.

So in some ways just chanting with a couple other people doesn't match up to that. But again, it's apples and oranges. Nichiren Shu chanting is not supposed to be a wild Dionysian kind of thing. We usually chant at a more moderate tempo and for more contemplative purposes - its Appolonian chanting. Kito prayer though - well that's always enjoyable and very ecstatic and mystical - but it takes special training and not the kind of thing I'll do in this lifetime. But I do enjoy it when others are doing it.

For more solitary practices I am more into just silent sitting. Just sitting there, being myself, letting things be what they are, becoming more deeply aware of and settled in the empty yet dynamically interdependent Middle Way nature of reality that doesn't need me to superimpose anything on it. All I have to do is just allow myself to deeply appreciate the sheer gratuitous wondrousness of phenomena as it is expressing the blossoming of Buddha nature in a never ending discourse.

Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
Ryuei

***************************************************************

Dear Ryuei:

Many people began to chant in Japan after two atomic bombs exploded three days apart over Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Can you imagine the psyche of the American people should Detroit and Jackson Mississippi be hit by two nuclear bombs three days apart? Tens or hundreds of thousands of people will begin to chant Namu Myoho renge kyo. Americans are still too complacent to seek the meaning of life at this time. They, as most people, cycle within Six Lower Worlds and the best that most people aspire to is the World of Rapture. Even our best minds, our doctors, lawyers, economists, business executives, artists, and musicians, for the most part, study, contemplate and heal, not for the sake of study contemplation, and healing but to arrive at the World of Rapture and the accumulation of things.

It will take an extreme catastrophy or series of catastrophies to awaken the people so poisoned. Diogenes said, "the people would much rather watch a shimmy, shimmy than hear a lecture on the nature of life." The people of Japan, after their tragedies personal and collective, opened up to the discourses that lead to emancipation...for a time.

Evolution theory has recently changed. No longer is it believed that evolution happens as a gradual process but as a series of explosive growth interspersed with millenia of imperceptable and gradual change. We are in the stage of imperceptable and gradual religious evolution. It is important to develop one person at a time who is willing to give his life for the spread of the Law so we [humanity] will be ready when the next stage of explosive growth begins. It is just around the corner.

Mark

Ryuei,

I know I sound like a broken record, but in terms of this forum/blog, I guess I am the outlier. You write:

"As much as I love communal, harmonious, rhythmic chanting - it is no good doing it if one must sacrifice one's intellectual, spiritual, or even emotional integrity. "

I've never, ever, ever, ever, ever, had to or been even physically or psychically approached to "sacrifice my intellectual, spiritual, or emotional integrity" in order to both be a leader and practice within the SGI. It's never even occurred to me. The responsibilities we have as members or just leaders within our district sangha are to each other, that is all. If someone is trying to make another member compromise their intellectual, spiritual, or emotional integrity then that "someone" is practicing incorrectly and within their own lives will win or lose against their fundamental darkness based on the correctness or incorrectness of their practice.

I guess I just cannot, really cannot perceive how someone could embrace the daimoku, practice regularly and allow themselves to be manipulated or their faith to be diminished by another person.

Also, I think the Theosophy argument is a little weak. I mean, I've been to SF Theosophy meetings in years gone by and I think I nearly fell asleep. The SGI is a vibrant , living organism with real diversity and energy. If I didn't think so, I definately would not be practicing with them.

namaste

Dear cl:

How can one sacrifice intellectual, spiritual, emotional integrity if one has none? Anyway, there is no need to ask in your case. You are all too willing to tow the SGI party line. It is you do the "asking" of your district members to sacrifice their integrity. If they don't worship at the feet of Ikeda or Obama, agree with your socialist manifesto, or if they question Nichikan's warped, smash the Hoben-pon, smash the Juryo-hon, Nichiren as true Buddha, and living master doctrines, they will receive a "why don't you chant about it" or "your faith is weak" scolding or at the very least, "encouragement". Surely you don't present the other side of the argument. Your members are like baby monkeys entrusted to a dog or a baby mouse entrusted to a cat.

Mark

definition of insane, twisted (potentially neo-conservative) rant:

"If they don't worship at the feet of Ikeda or Obama, agree with your socialist manifesto, or if they question Nichikan's warped, smash the Hoben-pon, smash the Juryo-hon, Nichiren as true Buddha, and living master doctrines, they will receive a "why don't you chant about it" or "your faith is weak" scolding or at the very least, "encouragement"."

The spittle was flying like bullets.

Dear cl:

Didn't I predict that you would scold anyone who didn't agree with your socialist manifesto? You are the Supreme Jewel that I never sought. You prove the righteousness of my words on a daily basis.

Emminent Conduct in Repaying Debts of Gratitude writes,

“He is so insane that he even maintains that the Tripitaka Master Kumarajiva, the man who introduced the Lotus Sutra to China, was an ignorant fool. Whatever he may say about the men of China, imagine his saying that the great scholars of India such as Nagarjuna and Vasubandhu and the several hundred others, all of them bodhisattvas of the four ranks, did not teach the true doctrine. Anyone who killed this man would be doing no more than killing a hawk. In fact, he would be more praiseworthy than someone who kills a demon!”

This was the way they railed at the Great Teacher T’ien-t’ai. And later, in the time of the Great Teacher Miao-lo, when the Dharma Characteristics and True Word doctrines were introduced from India, and the Flower Garland school was first established in China, Miao-lo spoke out against these teachings and was met with a similar uproar."

This is the Latter Day, "How much worse will it be after the Buddhas passing." when such fools as you, Etoro, Loric, and Greg Martin abound!

"Even a wise person cannot become a Buddha through the other sutras, but with the Lotus Sutra, even fools can plant the seeds that lead to Buddhahood."

Please note, it doesn't say " but with the SGI and Daisaku Ikeda you can plant the seeds that lead to Buddhahood." It says, "but with the Lotus Sutra" you can plant the seeds that lead to Buddhahood." This is the concept in the Kempon Hokke, "The Succession Through the Scrolls of the Lotus Sutra." The SGI is not much different than the Tibetian Buddhists who conflate the Three Treasures into the Treasure of the Lama conflating the Three Treasures into the the living Sensei. You (SGI) also conflate the Treasure of the Law and the Treasure of the Buddha into Namu Myoho renge kyo. How many doctrinal errors do I have to point out before you wake up, cl? How many alterations of the are you willing to put up with for the sake of SGI fellowhip? The Buddha wouldn't remain one more moment, even for the sake of fellowship with his own father, once he realized that this fellowship conflicted with his determination to seek the Law.

Mark

Mr. President, thank you for choosing to win and just being there:

http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1893255,00.html

namaste

President Ikeda also writes:

"Without a thorough knowledge of Nichiren Daishonin’s teachings, one’s practice can easily become self-cantered, and one may begin interpreting Buddhism in his own way. Study will deepen one’s confidence in faith and direct him to a correct path towards kosen-rufu."

Michael!
Keep up the good work please you may just have to put a focus on it.
In the end the momentarily 'exodus' of SGI members will come to a halt as soon those have made a decission who see themselves at a crossroad between 'Sokaism' and Nichiren Shonins teachings. I believe the new recruted members are differnet from the ones who have seen more of SGI over the years.
In Gassho
Gunther

Ryuei:

I've read your opinion and have been watching this thread carefully. As someone who left the SGI but did not join u with another Nichiren sect, I have an opinion here.

First, let me say that I completely agree with your concerns. One of the problems with a flood of disgruntled, disillusioned SGI members going directly to Nichiren Shu or any where else is that they need time to detox from the subtle programming. I can't help but think that some might try and recreate an SGI model all over again. If one leaves, they need to find themselves again before they commit to another way.

Second, I am concerned with the logic posed by CL when he quotes president Ikeda:

"Without a thorough knowledge of Nichiren Daishonin’s teachings, one’s practice can easily become self-cantered, and one may begin interpreting Buddhism in his own way. Study will deepen one’s confidence in faith and direct him to a correct path towards kosen-rufu."

This implies that only through the master's interpretation and the organization of the SGI can one truly be led to the truth of the Daishonin's teachings. When we look this a-typical guidance, we can see that it is a prohibition against actually thinking for one's self. Further, if one actually studdies Nichiren's teachings and truly unserstands them, they can clearly see that Shakyamuni is the eternal Buddha, Jogyo is the leader of the bodhisattvas of the earth, not the true Buddha, the Lotus Sutra is the supreme guide for the latter day, and so on. If one reads the Daishonin's writings, it becomes clear that the current manifestation of the SGI is in sharp contrast to the will of Nichiren and Lotus Sutra!

I believe that Nichiren Shu, Hokke Kempon, and other Nichiren sects will need to be prepared for many SGI members in the near future. The SGI will likely fracture into various factions after the passing of the mentor - but one never knows, it may be a smooth transition. It seems to me as if the members coming awake to the contradicitions and the organizations move away from the Lotus Sutra and the glorification of the master will be the ultimate cause for many members leaving the SGI. You and your peers should be ready for this.

Charles

Dear cl:

First let me say these teachings are in no way novel and we can find similar passages in the Sutra and the writings of Nichiren Daishonin but as the Shammapada teaches "by myself was this done; in everywork, great or small, let them refer to me''. Such is the ambition of the fool; his desires and pride increases."

"...The Nirvana Sutra states, “Those who study the teachings of the great vehicle, though they have the eyes of ordinary beings, are said to have the eyes of the Buddha.” (The object of Devotion for Observing the mind)

“In addition, the Great Teacher Miao-lo in the first volume of his Annotations on ‘Great Concentration and Insight’ comments on this situation by saying, ‘The people of today look with contempt on the sutra teachings and emphasize only the contemplation of truth, but they are making a great mistake, a great mistake indeed!’

“This passage applies to the people in the world today who put meditation on the mind and various other things first, and do not delve into or study the teachings of the sutras. On the contrary, they despise the teachings and make light of the sutras. This passage is saying that this is a mistake."

He goes on to say in the Conversations between a Sage and an Unenlightened man:

“As we have just seen, these patriarchteachers placed primary emphasis on the sutra texts. But if we therefore say that one must rely on the sutras, then we must take care to inquire whether those sutras belong to the Mahayana or the Hinayana, whether they are the provisional teachings or the true teaching."

The exact same principle of determining which of his writings is profound and which are shallow should be applied to the teachings of Nichiren Daishonin. For example, in the Opening of the eyes we read,

"Great Concentration and Insight says: “If one lacks faith [in the Lotus Sutra], one will object that it pertains to the lofty realm of the sages, something far beyond the capacity of one’s own wisdom to comprehend. If one lacks wisdom, one will become puffed up with arrogance and will claim to be the equal of the Buddha.”

and further down.

"[To combat such views] the tenth volume of On “The Words and Phrases” reads: “Probably those who are mistaken in their understanding fail to realize how great is the benefit gained even by a beginner [in the practice of the Lotus Sutra]. They assume that benefit is reserved for those who are far advanced in practice and disparage beginners. Therefore, the sutra here demonstrates its power by revealing that practice is shallow but the benefit that results is profound indeed.”

"Though a person may have been fortunate enough to be born as a human being and may have even entered the priesthood, if he fails to study the Buddha’s teaching and to refute its slanderers but simply spends his time in idleness and chatter, then he is no better than an animal dressed in priestly robes."

Also to quote the above passage of Ikeda's guidance without a thorough study of the
teachings, you will miss an important admonition about knowledge without faith,

"Although the people who study Buddhism outnumber the dust particles of the land, those who actually become Buddhas are fewer than the specks of dirt that can be placed on a fingernail."

"The monk Sunakshatra observed the two hundred and fifty precepts, mastered the four stages of meditation, and was versed in all the twelve divisions of the scriptures, while Devadatta memorized the sixty thousand nonBuddhist teachings and the eighty thousand Buddhist teachings, and could manifest eighteen miraculous powers with his body. And yet it is said that these men, because they had knowledge but no faith, are now in the great citadel of the Avichi hell. Mahakashyapa and Shariputra on the other hand lacked knowledge but had faith, and the Buddha accordingly predicted that they would become the Thus Come Ones Light Bright and Flower Glow, respectively. The Buddha stated, “If one should harbor doubt and fail to believe, one will fall at once into the evil paths.” These words refer to those who have knowledge but are without faith."

"Thus faith is the basic requirement for entering the way of the Buddha. In the fifty-two stages of bodhisattva practice, the first ten stages, dealing with faith, are basic, and the first of these ten stages is that of arousing pure faith. Though lacking in knowledge of Buddhism, a person of faith, even if dullwitted, is to be reckoned as a person of correct views. But even though one has some knowledge of Buddhism, if one is without faith, then one is to be considered a slanderer and an icchantika, or person of incorrigible disbelief."

“Knowledge without faith” describes those who are knowledgeable about the Buddhist doctrines but have no faith. These people will never attain Buddhahood. Those of “faith without knowledge” may lack knowledge but have faith and can attain Buddhahood. This is not merely my own opinion; it is stated clearly in the Lotus Sutra. In the second volume, the Buddha says, “Even you, Shariputra, in the case of this sutra were able to gain entrance through faith alone, not because of any wisdom of your own.” This shows that even Shariputra, unsurpassed in his wisdom, was able to attain Buddhahood only by embracing and firmly believing in this sutra, and that his wisdom alone did not enable him to become a Buddha. If Shariputra could not attain Buddhahood.through his wisdom, how can we ordinary people, with limited knowledge of the doctrines, dare to dream that we may attain Buddhahood when we do not have faith? The Buddha explains that people in the latter age will be arrogant, though their knowledge of the doctrines is trifling, and will show disrespect to the priests, neglect the Law, and thereby fall into the evil paths. If one truly understands the Buddhist teachings, one should show this in one’s respect for the priests, reverence for the Law, and offerings to the Buddha. Shakyamuni Buddha is not among us now, so you must respect the teacher with enlightened wisdom as you would the Buddha himself. How, then, could you not receive blessings? If one wishes for happiness in one’s next existence, one should renounce one’s desire for fame and fortune and respect the priest who teaches the Lotus Sutra as one would a living Thus Come One, no matter how humble that priest’s station. Thus it is written in the sutra."

"Great Concentration and Insight states that, although they study Buddhism, their views are no different from those of non-Buddhists."

"Persons of wisdom should of course devote themselves to the study of all the eighty thousand doctrines of Buddhism, and should become familiar with all the twelve divisions of the scriptures. But ignorant persons living in this latter age of ours, a time of evil and confusion, should discard the socalled difficult-to-practice way and easy-to-practice way that the Nembutsu believers talk of, and devote themselves solely to chanting Namu-myoho-renge-kyo, the daimoku of the Lotus Sutra."

"He made an exhaustive study of the teachings of the True Word school and of the Lotus school, and stated in his writings that the True Word teachings are superior to those of the Lotus Sutra."

Instead of wasting all this time studying what Daisaku Ikeda writes, you should make a more careful and thorough study of the doctrines of the Lotus Sutra and Nichiren Daishonin who are your original teachers. Then, it is not possible that you will come to the conclusion that the SGI teachings are superior to the Kempon Hokke or Nichiren Shu teachings.

"One who carries on the doctrines of a good teacher is called a worthy. One who realizes the truth for oneself without the aid of a teacher is called a sage. In the lands of India, China, and Japan since the passing of the Buddha, there have been two sages. They were T’ient’ai and Dengyo. These two men deserve to be called sages."

Please become a sage of the Lotus Sutra not like Fa-yun or Daisaku Ikeda. It is better to be leper in the Kempon Hokke with a correct view, correct faith in the Lotus Sutra, and little knowledge, than the head of the SGI study department who follows Daisaku Ikeda.

Mark

Mark/Charles et al,

All of this is very high melodrama regarding who one wishes to practice the Lotus Sutra meditation, the meditation upon Samantabhadra, the daimoku, the mystic law, etc... with. The reason I even post what I post in response to Mark is because if one takes even a glance at his posts, they are just lies, distortions, rants, borderline racist and misogynistic, and above all else (or below all else) hateful and full of spite and the kind of bitterness accumulated by those who stayed too long with a sangha or organization they should have left well before the Al Gore invented the Internet. (hah hah)

In any case, folks, this is the Internet. It becomes rather boring to state my experience time and time again. In reality life, of which this Internet is a part (i know i know), in reality Mark, we're just human beings trying to get by.

I am not against the Nichiren Shu (in fact I like what they're about in general), nor am I necessarily against Kempon Hokke or Nichiren Shoshu and certainly, certainly not against Independent practicioners. I am certainly for all buddhists who practice correctly. I am, however, against those who distort any teachings and those who actively seek, without faith or wisdom, the active destruction of another practice whether they be in SGI, Kempon Hokke (if such a thing exists on any substantial level), Gelug, Drukpa, Zen, Nichiren Shu, Nichiren Shoshu, Independent, Wicca, Christian, Muslim, Bahai, and on and on.

Thank You

Dear cl:

"The reason I even post what I post in response to Mark is because if one takes even a glance at his posts, they are just lies, distortions, rants, borderline racist and misogynistic, and above all else (or below all else) hateful and full of spite and the kind of bitterness accumulated by those who stayed too long with a sangha or organization they should have left well before the Al Gore invented the Internet. (hah hah)

Poor cl! Leave me alone, "we're just human beings trying to get by." Your mentor and Don Gropp says you are Buddhas. How hard it must be for an SGI Buddha.

The facts are, ninety percent of what I post are citations from the Lotus Sutra, and writings of Nichiren Daishonin compared and contrasted to what your mentor, leaders, and you say. Another five percent are documented facts of the "actual proof" of SGI members, the real reality of the SGI organization and retribution of your leaders and members as I and others have seen with our own eyes but which you are incapable of seeing. You are unable to point out one lie, one altered photograph, one altered Lotus Sutra passage, one altered Gosho passage, one altered writing of Daisaku Ikeda, one altered writing of your top senior leaders, or one incident that I reported on that hasn't happened. Sure I'm mad, mad at your spin and attempts at damage control.

Don't be fooled by Mr. CL Niceguy. He has called the Kempon Hokke and me all sorts of names and when asked for some proof, he can not produce any, not one damning quote. If you can't take my criticism what are you going to do when when of your kind and compassionate Islamic "friends" of SGI, turns on you with the call of Allah Akbar?

Your priorities, faith, and understanding are completely contrary to those of the Lotus Sutra and Nichiren Daishonin.

Wishing you well,

Mark

cl if your tolerance and acceptance of other sects is as broad as you make it out to be, you are the exception in SGI not the rule. I also have to wonder if you ever tell people in SGI that you are opposed to any organization that would "actively seek,without faith and wisdom, the active destruction of another practice." Being skeptical I might also add that your clause, "without faith and wisdom" gives you a lot of wiggle room, because who shall determine who is truly acting with faith and wisdom?

I have to agree with Mark that it is important to study without anybody's filter, but I also think there are lots worse things for people to be reading than SGI study materials.

All,

What I am trying to convey is that one's own experience is simply reliant upon one's own capacities and abilities. What we do in 'faith' is uphold the Lotus Sutra, the Gosho, Shakymanuni Buddha in our efforts to contemplate the 'wisdom' that we have attained immeasurable kalpas ago. I consider myself (in the most humble manner possible)to be an intellectual and one who studies both gosho, Lotus Sutra, SGI materials as well as the materials of other Nichiren sects and other buddhist sects, gnostic texts, some kabbalah, etc...However, these are not part of my primary practice. My primary practice of daimoku both shines a light on my own life as well as the teachings and practices of other folks that, when practiced sincerely, shine a light on their lives.

Jean, I would say I'm not the only 'exception'. I have rarely, very rarely ever been present or obliged to be present at any toso, meeting, etc... where any "temple issues" have been brought up. Within my sangha, in the rare occasion someone should mention this, usually they get a rolling of the eyes. I'm sure it varies, but it's not an issue within my district.

This doesn't mean I don't have an opinion on the issue, but I view the split as more fortune than not.

Mark-

Regardless of your feelings on Interfaith gatherings and understanding, you will potentially be left in the dusty hell of creepy, sad hate-speech and intolerance. We of the younger generation know that this is not the correct way to honor your mentor Shakyamuni nor Nichiren or any other mentor you might choose to connect with on any level.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

thank you

CL:

In your earlier comment you lumped Mark and I together in your response. Although I enjoy your writing style, wit, and comments, lumping us together didn't seem fair. This is not to say that I do not concur with Mark regarding the supremecy of the Lotus Sutra, the order of devotion, and the various problems with the SGI.

There is a very clear distinction between Mark and me in our approach and tone. I, for one, am hopeful that the SGI will live up to its potential, as the fundamental framework for advancing the Lotus Sutra is already established. I do not look on the SGI as any sort of enemy, regarding it as my estranged family.

I can't, nor will I speak for Mark, but I find all this bickering ansd sniping between you two to be unproductive. You, CL, based on your own words are quite assured of your beliefs and therefore deserve respect for those opinions. Mark, on the other hand, is firmly committed to the Lotus Sutra and his sect. It seems to me, as someone who has formed their own sangha in Modern Buddhism, that we forget about trying to maul other Buddhists with our immutable truths and turn our attention to the five billion other people on this planet that may be curious about Buddhism, especially Nichiren Buddhism and the Lotus Sutra. In fact, there are many hundreds of millions of people just waiting to hear the dharma at this very moment, but through lack of fortune or opportunity, are unable to hear it. If they were to tune in to our sectarian disputes, they would probably be repelled. I say, enough.

CL, please ask Nancy for your own blog to share your most interesting ideas - even if we disagree with you. And Mark, please continue to share your insights on the Lotus Sutra and Hokke Kempon, carefully picking your battles. I admire you both. Think of all those who might be tuning in for the first time to learn of the dharma. Let us not paint an ugly picture of the this great dharma. It's fine to disagree, it's far better to inspire.

Charles

Charles,

I apologize to you, but I was merely addressing both of you in terms of the immediacy of your responses, not based on my perception that you both share the same beliefs, or 'sangha' for that matter.

You have also just made a very progressive point regarding the sharing of the dharma and kosen rufu more specifically. We really shouldn't point figures at those who recite the daimoku as their primary practice. We took this vow to help all the sentient beings we could to quickly attain the body of a buddha. We have the obligation to go about this in a manner that is a person-to-person approach. Even if we are practicing independently we need to introduce others to the practice or the 'scrolls' and teachings in a humane and constructive manner. I know this is an area where Mark and I disagree, but I just know from seeing the negative effects of "attack propagation" with certain SGI members that it is just not the correct time or place to attack other sects, religions or spiritual paths. The SGI is evolving in a very positive direction, Charles. It is happening.

Most of all, all ordinary people want to be happy. We just have to show them that they can be at the expense of no other person.

gassho

Dear cl:

You are an excellent spokesman for Soka Gakkai, far better than Tom Cruise as a spokesman for scientology. No wonder you dislike mature practitioners. Youth are easily influenced and molded (brainwashed).

Nichiren Daishonin teaches that if you lack the compassion to correct a slanderer you will fail to attain Buddhahood. What could be more slanderous than the indiscriminate taking of lives by the Taliban and the Islamic fundamentalists who are spreading like so many weeds? While you engage in interfaith dialogue with these slanderers, we of the Kempon Hokke correct their mistaken beliefs and idealogy based on their book of death, the Quran at the cost of our lives. When they turn on you with the cry of Allah Akbar you will not even have time to cry out "Namu'. What a pity.

I would have no problem if the SGI were honest with themselves and others. Were you to call yourselves, the Teachings of SGI, The SGI Teachings on Value Creation, or Ikedaism, we would consider you as we do the Brahmins, Christians, Muslims and Jews, non-Buddhist, albeit non-Buddhists who utilize the daimoku. Then you would cease to be one of the Three Powerful Enemies and we could get on with the business of propagating Nichiren Lotus Sutra Buddhism rather than battling you lest the Law be lost. Don't you see, by calling SGI Nichiren Lotus Sutra Buddhism some seeker of the Way might actually believe it. They might actually believe that one can only attain Buddhahood through the SGI and the mentor rather than through the Lotus Sutra and Shakyamuni Buddha.

Mark

Mark,

What a perverted and cynical view to put on display that "Youth are easily influenced and molded (brainwashed)." Do you like this sort of thing?

Your cynicism competes only with the selection of Sarah Palin to be the running mate of John McCain.

Your cynicism is like fast food ads and malt liquor ads and Newport cigarette billboards purposely clustered within inner city neighborhoods.

It's really, really incredible how shallow your understanding of buddhism is Mark. I'm almost thinking it's insincere now.

You whistle right past any consideration of logic when you say:

"They might actually believe that one can only attain Buddhahood through the SGI and the mentor rather than through the Lotus Sutra and Shakyamuni Buddha."

Maybe where we disagree is on the condition of the use of the word "only".

I don't use this word when it pertains to world peace and buddhism nor do I generalize about world religions. I simply wasn't raised that way to hate others.

Just please, when you chant, try to make a connection to humanity and please become a master of your own mind.

namaste

Hi Mark and CL,

Mark you are obviously convinced that you need to imitate Nichiren in tone. As a parent I have generally found that correcting my kids by berating them is not a way to get them to change. They tend to harden rather than soften in their views. No one is going to listen to you if they don't feel you have any respect for them or for the way they currently see things. You can try to break and subdue all you want, and maybe you do it because you think that's the prescribed way to buddhahood rather than the way to actually get through to someone. That's how it seems to me. Like you're witnessing for Nichiren so you can get to heaven. But I don't see you as perverted or cynical anymore than alot of other people. I think you're sincere but more concerned about traversing the path of righteousness than about actually being compassionate.

CL, youth are easily influenced and I too beleive that the SGI's focus on youth is a bit cynical and is a way to insure that the ranks are replenished with true beleiver. I'm happy that you have found a way to retain your authenticity within SGI. It's definitely possible. But when you say "Maybe where we disagree is on the condition of the use of the word "only"." you imply that it's a minor point when in fact it's Mark's whole point. And a point well made.

You may indeed not "use this word when it pertains to world peace and buddhism nor do I generalize about world religions. I simply wasn't raised that way to hate others." but the SGI does teach this and it's focus on itself as the only true Nichiren Sect and underlying it all a belief that it is the only true religious organization, is undeniable to anyone with ears to listen.

I have no problem with and respect you remaining in an organization which clearly does not believe what you do about other religions and other Nichiren sects. I think you are behaving as a true boddhisattva of the earth in that you are not looking for a "pure land" to live in so you can be pure, instead you are secure in the power of your life to transform the saha world into the land of tranquil light. But I hope you don't think that the SGI is anything other than just another saha organization. Not much different than islam in terms of it's sense of righteousness and it's manifest destiny to dispense justice.

There's lot's to like about practicing in the SGI and districts vary from place to place but I think it's pretty clear what the central doctrines of the SGI are and they are not the same as your way of viewing things.

Just curious, are you a leader in the org and do you voice your opinions the same way to other leaders as you do here?

Bill

Dear cl:

You are an excellent spokesperson for the SGI, far better than Tom Cruise as the spokesperson for Scientology.

"If the slightest illusory idea lurks in the depths of one's life, prompting oneto accept the claims of those who denounce the Soka Gakkai, this is entirelyreversing the correct order of things. Such a mind is immersed in illusion or
ignorance, which develops into a cause to experience the sufferings of hell andcloses the path to one's enlightenment.

The biggest fool is one who thinks that everyone is a fool. Thank you for this opportunity to quote your mentor. Now here are some of his teachings on mature members:

"Resistance of a Forty-Eight-Year-Old, a novel written by Tatsuzo Ishikawa, is a work of fiction which deals with the dangers faced by a man in his forties.Among you there are many who have entered your forties or who are on the verge
of doing so.

In this connection, I want to say a few words about the traits of people in their forties. When a person enters his forties, first of all he notices the beginning signs of physical decline and a weakening of his life force. His children, in the meantime, have grown older, and moved on to schools of higher education, which in itself can present certain problems. One may experience
economic difficulties. Also, in his job, one reaches the point where he can see the limitations on his prospects for the future. In his family, the influence of his wife begins to gather momentum. Moreover, his children become stronger and more independent, and they are less inclined to simply obey what their father says.

In short, the forties are a time when gradual stagnation creeps into every aspect of life and one's hope for the future may begin to fade. Consequently, unlike one's younger days when one tried to rush wholeheartedly toward the
realization of his ideals and convictions, his faith may begin to show signs of contamination before he knows it, and he becomes inclined to approach the immediate realities of life with cunning. It would not be too much to say that
the forties are an especially dangerous period. Among those who, though active in their younger days, begin to slacken off along the way and eventually abandon their faith, many are in their forties or slightly older at the time.

Generally, the twenties represent a time of naiveté. Men in their thirties, for the most part, maintain their purity of mind. But when they pass the threshold of their forties, they come to a turning point and in many cases start to become jaded.

Once Mr. Toda said, "The third president will not be selected from among men in their forties." And he also said, "There remains too little time for them to lead the long expedition of kosen-rufu. We can only entrust it to young people." I feel quite certain that he made these remarks after making a full and thorough study of the propensities of men in their forties. It is no exaggeration to say that in order to survive the trying forties, what is important is to build for
oneself a solid foundation from which to propel one's life forward, never betraying one's pledge or lamenting over one's position or circumstances.

People who indulge in complaining and bear grudges have neither enthusiasm nor joy. They make their lives darker and darker and close themselves up with restraint, along the way throwing themselves into complex turmoil with others. You, the members of the Shin'ich kai, should never be like this. I ask you to
live a stately life illuminated with wisdom, for the sake of both yourselves and your fellow members.

The postscript of "Reply to Lord Ueno," a letter addressed to Nanjo Tokimitsu, reads, "You should not speak to anyone about my teachings without carefuthought. I mention them to you, because you are a young lord."* Nichiko Shonin, the fifty-ninth high priest of Nichiren Shoshu, explains this passage as follows:

"Middle-aged or elderly men are tainted with the poison of slander to the marrow of their bones. At the slightest touch of the fresh teaching of the Lotus Sutra, they show displeasure at it, growl, take to persecution and will not let it pass unhindered for anything. On the other hand, young people are free from persistent virulence and they can judge the validity of Buddhism. Therefore, don't take older men for your shakubuku. A young man such as yourself may be
drawn into danger. Try and talk to younger people—such is the Daishonin's kind instruction." This is his guidance on shakubuku, suggesting basic differences in the tendencies of middle-aged and elderly men, and young people.
*Major Writings, vol. I, p.217.

As one advances in age, his mind inevitably loses its purity and elasticity and he tends to look on things with an egotistic view. In contrast, young people's minds are so sincere and flexible that they absorb whatever they are told about faith. We should recognize the innate tendency for this propensity to fade as one moves on in years.

You are now entering this difficult period. It may be said that, you are standing at a turning point in your path of faith, in the position you assume in the organization and in the course you are to take in your career. How can you make it through without going off course? Only those who emerge strong can win eternal renown in the world of faith and in the history of kosen-rufu. The glory of such faith will perpetually shine in the form of good fortune and blessings for yourself and your descendants. This is due to the workings of cause and effect, which determine one's ultimate victory or defeat. If, ignorant of this
principle, you should be swayed by immediate gain or the needs of the moment and try to maneuver your lives tactfully or separate from the way of faith, you will not only bring misery upon yourselves but will also affect your posterity.

It may be said that as you are entering your prime, in terms of both your age and your responsibilities in society, you are liable to be overly concerned with maintaining your security, to grow conceited and to succumb to holding a cunning and petty view of things. However, you should never give in to such inclinations and wander from the path of faith.

A life of sixty or seventy years passes in the space of a breath. Nothing would be more miserable than to spend your later years causing trouble for your children, and confining yourself in loneliness without friends you can rely upon, only to leave behind a name for yourself as a backslider..."

Let me translate this for you since you can't seem to understand either the literal or essential meaning.

Because you have grown and advanced we can no longer brainwash you. You have begun to think for yourselves and that is a bad thing. Refresh yourselves always as an easily influenced youth for the sake of the Soka Gakkai, your families, and the world. Othrwise, terrible things will happen to you.

I know it is a difficult period having realized the true nature of the SGI. That is why you must again develop the flexible mind of youth so that we can again brainwash you to believing up is down and balck is right. When Nichiren Daishonin says this, he means that and when the Lotus Sutra says that, it means this. When Toda as my eternal mentor and guide asked me to be ever victorious for the sake of Kosen Rufu it means to never doubt the mentor even at the cost of your life. That is why Nichiren is the True Buddha and the Lotus Sutra has lost its power in this dreaded age. The SGI and the M/D relationship is the true meaning of the nichiren faith. Never forget this for a moment.

Mark

Dear Bill:

You wouldn't know Compassion if she came up to you and kissed you on the cheek. Day in day out the practice of shakabuku is like a diamond drill. Traversing igneous rock, limestone, and granite a millimeter at a time, it eventually breaks through into the oilfield of Buddhahood. As it traverses the mind of the slanderer, the rock of the slanderers mind becomes disquieted. Various thoughts and dreams occur to the person. "This isn't right" or he wakes up in a cold sweat fearful of the shards of glass he has been swallowing in a dream. He will make the connection to the shards of glass of the SGI or other misleading teaching that he has been espousing. Then again, a malignant wind will shake the house as the person creates the cause to slander the Lotus Sutra or its votary. This will never happen to one who hasn't been exposed to the true Teachings through shakabuku. One must encounter the True Teachings before one can fully connect to the Mystic Law.

Mark

Bill,

Yes, I am leader in my district only. Quite frankly Bill, with the day-to-day obligations of our business lives and then the efforts we take to care for the members (getting them rides to toso, planning meetings, study or just getting together for gongyo), there is little room left for either (a.) even the slightest mention of any "temple issues" and (b.) the kinds of things we debate and argue about while mostly wasting time on the Internet.

Who has the time?

Do you understand what I'm trying to say?

Buddha is life, our daily life and interactions. If Mark has the time to hate, then that is his time to use as he wishes, and to wish as he uses. I don't have the time or space in my life anymore for it.

I have work to do and will respectfully refrain from any further posting on this matter.

May you all find the happiness you knew since time without beginning. Please keep your heads together and your chins up.

nam myoho renge kyo
nam myoho renge kyo
nam myoho renge kyo

Thanks to both of you. Mark you're probably right I wouldn't know compassion if she kissed me on the cheek, but based on your description I guess I'll recognize it next time I'm at the dentist.

cl, keep your head down and just take care of your members as you see fit. Sounds like a good recipe for staying out of trouble.

I won't leave either one of you with a blessing from me. Just not my style.

Bill

Dear Bill:

Very funny and wonderful analogy [to the dentist].

Dear cl:
Yes it would be better for you to leave lest "you get the slightest illusory idea in the depths of your life prompting you to accept even one of the claims of those who denounce the Soka Gakkai. Your mind will become immersed in illusion or ignorance which develops into a cause to experience the sufferings of hell and closes the path to one's enlightenment." Forget all about the SGI slander of the Lotus Sutra, the Supreme Votary and their disciples. Run along. You have a mission only you can fulfill, to protect the members of the SGI from the light of the Lotus Sutra and Shakyamuni Buddha.

Your definition of hate, "a non SGI member posting Daisaku Ikeda's [venomous] words".

Mark

Dear Ryuei,

To me the value of writing into the wind here is learning not to take the wind personally. You wrote what you wrote about starting to worry for your own reasons, which I did take personally for my own reasons. So what if you were condescending? So what if I was a jerk in my reply to you? I was sorry I wrote it after I wrote it but now I think it was a good thing. Your initial post and my reply. (I know there were many other replies and they all were meaningful but sometimes it is all about me, for instance this reply that I'm writing right now, it's personal).

The reality is that I misunderstood what you wrote and took it personally. It was a mistake, but I don't think it turned out to be a mistake. Seems to me that there are always unintended consequences to any action we take. The most wise action or the most foolish. I think it's not so much about whether we take wise or foolish action in the moment but how we deal with the fallout the moment later. I am very impressed by the way you've dealt with the fallout here.

I see a Ryuei/Michael synthesis growing before our eyes. Not that my opinion matters for that process, but I like what I see and I hope you'll continue to share it with us.

Thanks,

Bill

Ryuei,
You're one of the nicest, kindest, and compassionate condescending bastards I've ever met. Great stuff on Henry Miller. And I loved McEnlightenment! Very very very umpteenthly funny. If I wasn't already better at being condescending than you, I'd want to be like you.

Wow.

You got a lot of response. I have not found of any of your material condescending. Now, this one was a tad boring. Anyway, I had to twist my brain into knots to figure out why some were offended. I guess I see it, but people are just way too easily offended.

Ryuie says, "I know several fine members of SGI - but my honest observation is that they are increasingly being pushed to the fringe and/or having to swallow things that are becoming increasingly nonpalatable to them."

To be honest it is this opinion of an organization of which you do not participate withn but take a ine-sided view without knowing the whole story.

I do not do this to you or your organization, but you feel quite comfortable in making these statements oof obtuse opinion without adequate background or justification.

What you say does not bother me, but I note your opinions.

This is more or your previus post being extended. I know many SGI memebrs not like you describe above, as well as those unhappy for their ersonal reasons usually blamed on the oorganization.

Patrick

Patrick --

Fool: "Tasting but a piece of the pie how could you possibly know the taste of the whole pie."

Mark

Mark,
Just in case you have not noticed, I ignore your commentd. you are no authority of fools unless you have personal experience in the area of being a fool, so therefor you can identify them directly, cause into mission.

Myself, I respect Michael Ryuie as a person, but I do not agree with his opinions. i can do that.

smile.

Patrick

Isn't it wonderful that not everybody who chants Daimoku thinks that the end justifies the means and that the only salvation is to be baptized in the blood of Nicheren? It's also good to know that not all practitioners are following orders and protecting the status quo just to survive in a religious organization. Freedom of Religion is definitely a good thing and always will be!