Hi everyone,
I am just going to think out loud hear - so I apologize if what comes out is not coherent or ordered or systematized. I just thought I'd "brain-storm" and I might as well do it here.
I just read an article during lunch about how there are only three villages left in the world where the people speak Aramaic. Aramaic is, I believe, the progenitor of modern Arabic. Aramaic was the language that Jesus and his contemporaries spoke. Now it is a language that is all but gone. Recently, an Aramaic language institute was formed in one of the largest of these villages (they are all in Syria) so that people could learn to read and write in Aramaic (it uses the Hebrew alpahabet) and preserve this as a spoken language for future generations. Some might wonder, "Why bother? Who cares?" But the people in these village care - both children and adults are taking classes and they feel empowered and a sense of connection to their ancestors and heritage. Just like, by the way, those in Ireland who have been trying to revive Gaelic. It is an important legacy - and one that scholars also wish to preserve - esp. Bible scholars (I am speaking about Aramaic again, not Gaelic of course).
Buddhism is the same way. There are many schools and sub-schools. There is no such thing as generic Buddha Dharma anymore than there is a such a thing as a generic language. That can't be emphasized strongly enough. Every form of Buddhism is connected to a particular take on the Dharma and has been handed down by a particular lineage. Even those who are trying to create some kind of nondenominational or transectarian Dharma are fooling themselves if they can't acknowledge and recognize that everything they know about the Dharma they either learned from teachers or resources that belong to a lineage or they are just making stuff up (and then it can be legitimately asked why are they calling what they are making up as "Buddhism"?).
As a for instance, for some years I was a member of a New Religion from Korea called Won Buddhism that was founded in 1916. I am still on very friendly terms with them and occasionally I help them out with some of their translations efforts and vice versa. Won Buddhism is not connected to any particular traditional school of Buddhism. In fact, it's original name was the Buddha Dharma Research Society. It's founder was independently enlightened but went on to teach and he is regarded as a Buddha for this age by his followers (sound familiar?). However, he decided that Shakyamuni Buddha's enlightenment was the predecessor of his own, and he declared Buddha Dharma to be the foundation of his own teachings. He spent many months at a Korean Zen monastery doing research and refining his doctrine and practice and also selecting traditional texts for his new movement to study (they settled on 3 Hinayana sutras, the Diamond Sutra, and the Heart Sutra and a selection of 3 Zen writings). So in spite of the fact that it started out as a nondenominational Buddhist research society - there is no escaping two facts: (1) It became a denomination in its own right, and if it had not it would have disappeared just as the many other Korean New Religions from the late 19th and early 20th centuries that were more loosely organized have disappeared with barely a ripple even in Korea. (2) It is a denomination that has unmistakeable ties in terms of doctrine and practice to the particulars of Korean Zen (and esp. the teachings of Chinul). One thing I appreciate about the Won Buddhists is that they are very much an open, tolerant, and welcoming group to other Buddhists. They give Buddhism (or at least the Buddhist New Religions) a good name. They actually walk their talk. You could do a lot worse than become a Won Buddhist, and I would actually put them on a short list of groups I would recommend people check out - but with the reservation that they don't explicitly uphold, practice, or even acknowledge the Lotus Sutra and that they consider their founder the new Buddha - I do politely disagree with them on those two points.
I bring up the Won Buddhists because at least in Korea they have been very successful and have made positive contributions to society, and they have not engaged in sectarian conflict. However, to do what they have done they needed to both take inspiration from a traditional lineage of Buddhism to remain even quasi-Buddhist and they have had to form their own lineage in order to pass on their particular approach to Dharma. Their founder also did not hide the fact that he went to the traditional lineages for inspiration.
What I see some American Buddhists doing now is making one of two mistakes. One mistake is thinking that there can be a viable form of Buddha Dharma without lineage, or organization, or some form of Sangha that is more than just an informal get together. If Shakyamuni Buddha had not put together a formal monastic Sangha to preserve a way of life and practice and to remember and pass on the teachings - there would be no Buddhism today. If Nichiren, or Dogen, or Chinul, or the many other great teachers of the past hadn't trained disciples and established a lineage - we would not even be talking about Buddhism at all today. At the very least - someone has to put together the money and support to publish books so that people can read the Buddha Dharma or put it out on the internet. Buddhism teaches about causes and conditions - well there would be no Buddha Dharma if people had not stepped up to work together and provide resources for the promulgation of Buddha Dharma. This is why Sangha is the third jewel and why Nichiren and Dogen and so many others stressed gratitude to the Three Jewels of Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha. But I see American Buddhists wanting to dispense with Sangha beyond just informal get togethers with no particular teachings or practices, some just want nothing more than the so-called Cyber-Sangha. But this will not create Sangha in the Buddhist sense of a group of people who can both help each other live the teachings and pass it on in an integral manner to future generations. If this is the best American Buddhism can do - then it will die a quiet death just as Theosophy has.
The other mistake is to set oneself up as the founder of a lineage before one has really earned one's "black belt" or received accreditation from other credible teachers and/or lineages. Maybe this doesn't make any difference to a lot of people out there who just appreciate anyone who comes along and can talk a good game or put on a good show. Who cares whether they have credentials or not? Well, for my part, I do. I have had many teachers and mentors in my life and I am sure that I may end up meeting others. They don't all have to have credentials. I can admire and learn from people who simply have personal qualities I admire and would like to emulate. But when it comes to Buddhism, I have found that the people I trust and who have most helped me are people who made the effort to do their homework, undergo training programs, and have been vouched for by the lineages they claim to represent. Others seem to either be making things up to fill their gaps in knowledge (doctrinal and practical) or to be relying on information cribbed from lineages that they haven't bothered to really learn from or train in other than reading some books or online articles. Again, this isn't to say that a non accredited person can't be very praiseworthy and insightful - even about Buddhism. But to really delve deeply into what Buddhism is all about - I feel my best bet is to check with the lineage holders who have a more complete and well-rounded training in the traditional teachings and practices.
Now I asked myself many years ago when I started getting curious about Buddhism, who do I want to learn from? Someone who has actually been trained in Buddhism by a viable lineage? Or someone who is just setting up shop on their own authority?
Back in high school I knew it wasn't enough to just read a lot of books. I wanted to learn about Buddhism from actual Buddhists so I wouldn't get lost in my own biases, projections, and misconceptions. I first ran in SGI but in two years I figured out that they derived their legitimacy from Nichiren Shoshu, but Nichiren Shoshu wasn't honestly teaching what was in Nichiren's writings or what was in the Lotus Sutra. Just as importantly, their intolerance, dogmatism, and shallow approach to Buddhism (compared to what I had already read) raised many red flags for me.
My next stop was Won Buddhism. There I was very impressed by the spiritual depth and personal qualities of Rev. Bokin Kim and the other members of the Philadelphia Won Buddhist temple. I was also impressed by the teachings of Won Buddhism's founder, Sot'aesan. But still, they were not traditional Buddhism and did not claim to be. As much as I admired Sot'aesan, his teachings still derived from Korean Zen and ultimately Shakyamuni Buddha.
In L.A. and later the Bay Area I finally discovered Nichiren Shu. Here is where it came together for me. At last I could learn Buddhism from people who seemed to have or at least were striving to have the qualities that attracted me to Buddhism in the first place - tolerance, kindness, generosity, an aspiration for spiritual living and not mere material gain, and so on. And at least I could learn from people who had direct lineage ties to Nichiren and ultimately back to Shakyamuni Buddha, people who had grown up Buddhist, been educated as Buddhists, undergone genuine training, and actually showed primary fidelity to what Shakyamuni Buddha taught in the sutras without being dogmatic or fundamentalist about it. These were the modern heirs of the Sangha Shakaymuni Buddha established - and I was and still feel blessed to have finally encountered them.
This is not to take away from other legitimate modern heirs of the Sangha and lineages that all ultimately trace back to Shakyamuni Buddha. But there is a great variety of Dharma out there. In the end, one must make a decision about what lineage or form of Buddhism makes the most sense to you personally - this is also involved with what lineages you have access to and have had positive experiences with.
As I said above, there is no generic Dharma and even if one tries to create a form of generic Dharma one is merely putting together elements derived from other lineages and then creating just another lineage which claims like all the others to simply be Buddhism. That is what happened to Dogen, by the way, he was just trying to establish Buddhism and wanted to transcend sectarianism. But for Dogen, generic universal Buddhism amounted to what he learned from the Soto lineage plus his own innovations - and so the Soto Sect was formed.
So the way I see it American Buddhists have three choices:
1. Practice Buddhism with a lineage (traditional or "new").
Pros: One can learn traditional teachings and practices from accredited teachers (at least accredited within the lineage), teaching and practices that have at least passed the test of time for several generations (e.g. Won Buddhism almost a century, Nichiren Buddhism 750 years or so, Theravadin Buddhism 2,500 years or so). One can also benefit from practicing with many others with the same basic manner of practice and can learn a lot from lineage resources (publications and so on).
Cons: Some traditional lineages are dogmatic, authoritarian, filled with stuffy self-important people, more tied in to ethnicity then Buddhism, and so on. In short, they have all the problems of dealing with any institution or large group of people - the only solution to which is to just give up on the human race and live in a cave.
2. Make up your own lineage by derivation of established lineages and/or making stuff up and calling it "Buddhism."
Pros: If you are the founder you get to make stuff up as you go along, mix and match anything you want, and basically create a form of "Buddhism" made to order for your own predilictions and then you get to invite like minds to support you in this. If you are the joiner of such a group, you get in on the ground floor of something new and exciting and can potentially have a big influence on how it develops, and you are also likely to get more personal attention from the teacher at least while the group is small.
Cons: If you are looking for Buddhism itself, you might be disappointed as the teacher may not be presenting traditional Buddhism but their own Buddhist derived or flavored innovations (as in Won Buddhism, the Falun Gong, or SGI). In other words, you will not be getting things from the source. The teacher may also have a my way or the highway attitude. Of course, if one cares more about the teacher or founder of such a new lineage than for Buddhism itself, then this is probably not a problem (of course, one is then at the mercy of whatever the teacher decides to or is capable of teaching you).
3. Practice Buddhism in informal allegedly nonsectarian groups.
Pros: Same pros as with the newly minted lineages with the added bonus that how things develop will probably be more by concensus rather than up to the personal predilictions of a single leader. An informal group also has the advantage of drawing upon anything that happens to catch the fancy of any member of the group - as opposed to just being limited to a single lineage or a single leaders point of view and experience. Also, informal groups have no leaders, no rules, no organization, and so on. Informal groups can also be great clearing houses for those who have not settled on a lineage and want to be exposed to many things first in a non-pressure more or less neutral environment. Some informal groups even morph into seed Sanghas of established lineages (such as the Branching Streams network of groups around the world that have begun to affiliate with San Francisco Zen Center).
Cons: How sustainable are concensus group beyond a very small number of people? And how many disparate elements (even within Buddhism) can be harmonized to the satisfaction of all? Should vipassana or zen be the main practice? If there is chanting should it be Odaimoku or Nembutsu, or should it alternate? Should things be restricted to only Buddhism or can New Age, neo-pagan, or occult sources be drawn upon? Another problem is that without any leaders, rules, or organization the informal group will never be anything but an informal group that will in time fade away as members pass on or move away or just move on to other things in life. So if there is any sense that Buddha Dharma should be more than just a special interest club, informal groups may not provide the kind of structure that people sometimes need from religion (weddings, funerals, celebrations or memorials for other key life events, counseling needs, more directed and systematic practices and spiritual education etc...).
There is a lot to think about and discuss here. I obviously favor going with the traditional lineages and then picking one to really commit to and support. But I don't want to be misunderstood. I don't condemn the other lineages even when I might have a different view of things. I don't condemn the newfangled lineages - I actually think rather highly or several of them - esp. Rissho Kosei Kai, the Won Buddhists, and perhaps Reiyukai (though I've only met a couple of members of that group - but they made a very good impression). As for informal groups, I would hope that the Gathering in LA knows that I definately support what they are doing and I have always gained a great amount of encouragement and inspiration from them. My thoughts are often with them, and it is one reason I must from time to time express my concern for their long-term sustainability. But even then, if they don't share that concern that's ok with me. So informal groups very much have a positive role to play as well.
One last thing - I really wish Byrd were still around to comment on this. I used to always look forward to her feedback. She almost always had something insightful and constructive to say.
Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
Ryuei
"Even those who are trying to create some kind of nondenominational or transectarian Dharma are fooling themselves if they can't acknowledge and recognize that everything they know about the Dharma they either learned from teachers or resources that belong to a lineage or they are just making stuff up (and then it can be legitimately asked why are they calling what they are making up as "Buddhism"?)."
As far as I know, there was one Buddha, and he founded one Sangha. That means there must have been a buch of folks who just made something up and called it Buddhism? Take for example, the Lotus Sutra ...
robin
Posted by: robin at August 12, 2008 08:31 PMHi Robin,
Very good point. That is why I put so much stock in the Pali Canon. It is the baseline of what the historical Buddha actually taught and did. I truly believe that all the lineages must be able to trace themselves back to that and show that their teachings and practices are consistent with that material.
This does not mean that I rule out the Mahayana sutras as authentic expressions of the deepest meaning of Buddha Dharma. I do in fact believe the Mahayana sutras, and particularly the Lotus Sutra, express and convey what the Pali Canon oftentimes fails to. But this could mean that the anonymous creators of the Mahayana sutras are going beyond the Pali Canon and thus beyond the historical Buddha, or it could mean that they are bringing out the full implications of the teaching and practice of Shakyamuni Buddha. I happen to believe the latter, because I believe the Mahayana sutras are consistent with what we do know about the historical Buddha's teachings and practices at least in broad outline.
And hey, why not go for broke here - maybe the Mahayana material is a break with the earlier tradition of the historical Buddha and perhaps the historical Buddha would repudiate it if he were to have found out about it. In that case, I'd go for the imaginary celestial Buddha who personifies ultimate reality of the Mahayana sutras over the grumpy old pundit of the Pali Canon. And in that case, I'd have to be content with saying that this imaginary Buddha (who represents perhaps a multitude of anonymous enlightened practitioners) is inspired by but is not confined by the Pali Canon, and that it is this imaginary Buddha that has inspired the various Mahayana lineages and whose version of Dharma I find the most compelling and inspiring myself - much more so than even others I admire like the historical Buddha, Sot'aesan, Jesus, and so on.
So in the end, I set out to be a disciple of the imaginary Mahayana Shakyamuni Buddha via the lineages that are upholding that tradition in a more or less direct line of succession. That's what I set out to find since high school, that's what I ultimately found, and I am still accepting no other substititons.
By the way, I also much prefer the perhaps imaginary Nichiren Daishonin who is a composite of both the authenticated gosho and the often more inspiring dubious gosho that were attributed to him. The strictly historical Nichiren I find to be way too dry, academic, and doctrinaire. On the other hand, maybe those disputed gosho really were written by the historical Nichiren afterall. In any case, the bottom line for me is that I am inspired by and consider myself to be a disciple in the lineage of the "Nichiren" that wrote "Happiness in this World", "On Attaining Buddhahood" and "Conversations Between a Sage and an Unenlightened Man." And again, I will accept no substitutions.
Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
Ryuei
Now I read the rest. Thought provoking. One thing you did mention is that we ultimately inherit the Dharma from the scrolls.
We can also learn the basic concepts from reading. The main advantage I can see in a lineage is learning methods; skills. For myself, at present, joining a school is simply not an option. Part of it is a desire to maintain neutrality.
I agree with Nichiren doctrinally as best as I can tell. I also like that they do not seem to mind if one learns from other lineages. I do not care for the concept of priests doing things for me, and a couple other things. That is just me; I have no objection to those things in general.
As for the three options, I think all three should be pursued. I would add a fourth; just practicing as a Sangha of one, as part of the Armchair Shu. For some, that is all they can do right now.
That is just the way it is; the way things evolve in a free market place of ideas. There is a place for all of us. The Theosophists may have died out; but they left a footprint.
BTW: I can even conceive of one person doing all four. If someone told me I can not; and be part of their group, then I would not stick around. If someone started telling me what I could say, which books I could read, who I could speak with, and so on, I would pretty much be done.
One more thing, this just popped in my head: "Just go ahead and keep building your field of dreams, Michael. People will come."
robin
Posted by: robin at August 12, 2008 09:40 PMI hate typing in this tiny window. I wish y'all would use the extended entry; so the "continue reading" link is there.
errata:
Now I read the rest. Thought provoking. One thing you did *NOT* mention {iirc} is that we ultimately inherit the Dharma from the scrolls.
I agree with Nichiren *SHU* doctrinally as best as I can tell.
Posted by: robin at August 12, 2008 09:47 PMRev. Ryuei & all -
Two points come to mind.
The first is that while I understood "sangha" or "community of practicers/believers" in an intellectual sense very easily, over time I am developing a very much more whole and complete understanding in an emotional and spiritual sense of what the term "sangha" contains. This is turning out to be different in ways I cannot readily articulate at this time from my intellectual understanding.
The second point is that people have very different desires and needs towards their sanghas, and their practices. Some want or even *need* a very loose and informal structure. Others are drawn to a more traditional style practice and group. I don't believe there is a one-size-fits-all answer (I know you weren't proposing that). I also find that people's needs and desires change over time and it might take some time to recognize that. Sometimes peoples' needs and desires are in conflict with each other as well.
I really believe that the only answers are personal ones, and that I cannot decide what is right for someone else.
Namaste, Engyo Mike Barrett
Posted by: Engyo Mike Barrett at August 13, 2008 04:55 AMHello Ryuei
Your comments are interesting but the idea that people can not practise without priests/sangha is very disturbing.....Take myself. Here is my story....left SGI not because I hated it or disliked the people, but simply because I felt the attacks on priests were unbuddhist and let the SGI down.
Practised for ten years on my own, some of it with other people in a Peace group. Then was introduced to N.Shu. After very short time was requested by a priest to become Shami....after thought, said yes...seemed a good way of helping people in this difficult world. Took Tokudo...worked very hard with my partner at London temple while priest was away, looking after people, taking services etc. Ran into trouble with a member....a lie was told about myself. No support from priest! In fact was insulted personally. Left this temple. After one year, requested another teacher.....worked to build a sangha in our house in London...took Tokudo again....all went well until I tried to assist situation in France where there had been a quarrel with priest....big trouble with my temple...some of it because I acted as a western woman and would not "obey" my teacher unconditionally! Bullied again. The whole sangha was "put into Coventry"....like at school. No word for ten months from temple, likewise for the rest of the people who come to us. Including young woman who has taught herself Japanese so she could go forward to possible priest training! My partner wrote to our head temple, was told by chief Abbot that she would be written to in two months about what had happened....no letter ever arrived! Although, she wrote twice more.
Now please explain to me how we are meant to proceed in this Nichiren Shu School. There is absolutely no way my side of the story was asked about in either case. Is this a good example of caring, credible teachers?
Oh, one more thing. One day I looked early in the morning on line....there was an extremely unpleasant letter written about you, between two priests, who again had presumably gone through all the training and are considered worthy of teaching....so Ryuei do not have an exalted idea of priests, like all people there are ones who can plot and be uncompassionate etc. until maybe they learn better, like us all. By the way, you may not have seen this letter, as our time difference made the letter vanish very quickly, because it had been a mistaken posting!
With good luck for your future, hope you build a nice big group at Faithful Fools. I remain a Nichiren Buddhist, but my school seems to have deserted me....and our group....we will take the hint!!
Gassho Suzanne
Posted by: Suzanne Rees Glanister at August 13, 2008 09:57 AMHi Suzanne,
I am sorry to hear about your problems in Europe. Europe is very small in terms of Nichiren Shu ministers and members, so if the personalities there cannot get along or accomodate one another then it is a no-starter. I cannot comment on your particular situation because I don't know all the sides of the story and I have learned my lesson about getting involved in things that are not my business/outside my jurisdiction.
I will say a few things in general though.
It seems to me that you are probably still a Nichiren Shu member at least on the books. In your situation you could try to see if there is any way of coming to some agreement with the head minister of the London Temple. If that is not workable - then yes, it would see you and your Sangha will have to go the Independent route. You might look to the Gathering for inspiration in that regard. I hope Bill Anker who has joined the bloggers here will write about the Gathering and its experiences as a group.
Also, I don't think I have ever said that ministers/priests are exalted or any better than anyone else. Certainly there is a form of quality control and training before one can become a minister. But that does not guarantee that any given minister will be a sterling personality (my wife certainly wouldn't sign off on that). We are just people doing the best we can as all people do. We just happen to have made religion a vocation (or in my case part-tme vocation). Ideally we should be doing all we can to share what we have learned with others - that's the whole point of our training as I see it - to share the fruits of that training.
And yes, I know that not everyone in Nichiren Shu likes or approves of me - there are at least as many who do, or who at least find me useful and are very nice to me to my face. Cliques and factions are also a very human thing. There are ministers that I don't like or approve of as well and I have said things about them that violated right speech. Hopefully we will all learn and grow and become more tolerant of our diversity and also our failings.
Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
Ryuei
Here is an issue with lineages, not just with Nichiren Shu:
the Nichiren Shu Temple of London more or less advertises various services such as: "Tobyo-Heiyu: prayer for recovery from illness, Kaium: prayer for Raising your fortune, Shobai-Hanjo: prosperity of business, Juken: success in an examination, Shu-Shoku: finding work, Kotsu-Anzenn: free from traffic accident, Kanai-Anzen: safety of your family and security for the house, blessing for baby, house, car, property etc. ... the cost for each ceremony starts at:
So, intead of studying in college, I could have simply paid for Juken? Who knew?
This goes on in all of Asian Buddhism including Theravada -- blessings, exorcisms; and so on. It looks odd in the west. I gather in Asia it is a variation of a protection racket. Pay us, or the demons will cause a natural disaster?
BTW, maybe Europe is different than the USA; but advertising fees looks tacky to me; superstitions aside.
gassho
robin
Posted by: robin at August 13, 2008 03:19 PMSuzanne,
I still hope Nichiren Shu will more readily adapt to western culture than some others. Read Barbara Pike's commentary about amae. The Japanese generally think they are culturally superior to hairy barbarians. For the most part, they think we should change and be like them. There is no reason to think Nichiren Shu is exempt. These are, IMO, issues of culture, not of Buddhism.
Ryuei, your comment about jurisdiction is telling. I am not going to be anyone's jurisdiction. That is the parish system is it not?
I am not telling anyone they should leave or not join Nichiren Shu. I would just not be stunned to run into the same sort of paternal, patronizing,
controlling situations Byrd encountered with SGI.
Certainly not with Ryuei, but with some. It is going to take time and patience for Nichiren Shu to acclimate to the west; and I am sure there are those who have no desire to even see that happen. And I suspect those are where the revenue base exists.
One thing, I do not know that Nichiren Shu would even have me; so perhaps score one for them. :}.
I just have impression I would be told I should not say or do certain things; and that is not gonna work. Right now, the Arm Chair Shu seems like a nice fit. Now all I need is an armchair.
gassho
robin
Hi Robin,
Yes, I know all that magickal stuff and amulets for this and that occasion seems like a lot of hucksterism. But as you pointed out - it is pretty universal in Asian Buddhism and Nichiren Shu certainly has its versions. I will even cop to buying and eye-opening amulets myself for family and friends. I just don't think it should ever become anything more than just a sideline for people who otherwise wouldn't bother with Buddhism at all. It's just a skillful means (and a good way of making some spare change I guess).
As for people being shunned in Nichiren Shu. If and when it happens it is not because of some overriding policy as you would find in SGI. I have only heard of a couple occasions where one might say such a thing has happened. And in these cases it boils down to specific people and personalities. On the whole, I have never witnesses the kind of paranoia, defensiveness, and seige mentality that SGI has, not in Nichiren Shu, not in Soto Shu, not with the Won Buddhists, not with any other Buddhists I have ever met or dealt with. I have met a few personalities I would rather not deal with (even in Nichiren Shu) but those are personality clashes - not endemic policiesor attitudes.
No, Nichiren Shu is not perfect and I am not claiming that it is. But in general it is no better or worse than any other mainstream Japanese traditional Buddhist lineage.
SGI - however - is a corrupt personality cult with a very nasty attitude that doesn't even treat its own members with respect unless they shut up, do what they are told, don't make waves, pay for their subscriptions, adulate Ikeda, and support whatever activity or campaign they happen to be pushing including actions against the Shoshu. Ad they treat other Buddhists as potential threats. They talk peace and dialogue but practice war and propaganda. They are truly despicable.
Most Japanese people think more highly of the Yakuza than they do of SGI - which they consider not any better than Aum Shinrikyo (the cult that used nerve gas on the Tokyo subways). I am not making this up - I know that the average Japanese person thinks this because I have been told this by many people (and not just my wife and her family and not just Nichiren Shu ministers or members).
Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
Ryuei
Yes,
Barbara Pike and Wendy Ehlman tended to see the problem as primarily one of Japanese culture. I think Reverend Greg voiced as well? Now, I agree with you that the issues with Gakkai go well beyond that. It is rotten at the roots. My thinking; before I officially disassociated; was that doctrinal reform was the key. That if that were fixed; the other things would fix themselves.
One of the things I am saying, is that one should not expect to encounter zero cultural conflict issues in Nichiren Shu. Part of that is likely to be amae; pari of it could be vestigal ethocentric kokugaku attitudes, part might be the elements ritual magick {that has pretty much attached itself to all strains of Buddhism{.
BTW, I think some of the magick, even the some of the milder less ethnocentric Hokke Shinto "stuff" I have mentioned before, is rather kewl. The amae and ethnocentrism I can live without. On a positive note, it is an opportunity to cultivate the merit of kshanti - forbearing patience. I would also add that "we" should be mindful of our own rather reckless, impudent, arrogant western chauvinism.
another BTW: Does Kaium: prayer for Raising your fortune, work? If so, can you bless a lotto ticket for me? :}
gassho
robin
Yes the cultural and personality conflicts do play out everywhere in Buddhism (not just in North America either I am sure) and they do exacerbate each other.
As for the magickal aspects - I had a friend who used to ask me all the time if I would chant for his team to win in various ballgames. I was always kind of annoyed by that as I felt it was trivializing the Odaimoku. But maybe I should have made an amulet for victory and charged him money for it?
Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
Ryuei
Hello Ryuei
I am not quite sure why you keep claiming that any trouble between people in N.Shu is to do with"personality differences"....in my case it was to do with what I considered, to be unjust and immoral behaviour on the part of the persons who were trying to "silence" me.
I have a choice....remain in favour, or let what I see as an "injustice" go by unremarked or unchallenged.
As for the culture of Japanese, I have been a fan of their poetry, arts, theatre, for years. Also made a good attempt at understanding what standing women have in the culture.
I have spent far too much energy trying to promote Nichiren's Buddhism....over thirty years in all....time to think of myself! The training I received to be a priest was non-existent....a little bit of how to bang drums and how to pronounce the word Nich-i-ren!(Yes I am bitter).
Like Robin I am not against the "magic" side of
religion, just think it is mostly very good
theatre. But to walk into the London temple, and the first thing one sees is the large box for donnations, makes me cringe. I know this goes on in Asian temples, throw the coin in and say a prayer, but I feel westerners are not used to this.. talk to us and explain that the temple needs support, then we can dig in our pockets, should we wish to do so.
There have been quite a few Shami in Europe, they came and they went....one is left in London and maybe others elsewhere but do not know...although after six or maybe more years the Shami in London has not been ordained. I wonder why? Seems to me that I am not the only person who ran into trouble with training and personalities! We who became Shami did so with the best "will in the world", spending our money and time to try and facilitate this Nichiren Buddhism in Europe...we have been let down....and I quite understand my tendency that led me to this sorry situation. But do you know,in the end I took advice from a priest in another Japanese
tradition....they "opened my eyes" as to my problem" Thank you.....that person had compassion for me....what a change! I have known some dear priests in N.Shu - however, they had no "power" to help.
Gassho Suzanne / Shoho
Posted by: Suzanne Rees Glanister at August 14, 2008 01:28 AM
Ryue, are you suggesting that SGI is a criminal organization? Be careful you could end up in court.....
We all know what happened to Desdimona when Othello's mind was poisoned against her by Iago!!
Gassho Suzanne
Posted by: Suzanne Rees Glanister at August 14, 2008 01:58 AMHi Suzanne,
What I have found in the Nichiren Shu is this - every minister has their own way of doing things within certain parameters of our teaching and practices. If you can't form a good relationship with any of the ministers within, say, your region - well then time to go elsewhere.
I think it may be a mistake to think in terms of sects and schools - better to think in terms of what the local Sanghas on the ground/offline face-to-face actually have to offer you and what you may have to offer them. I don't see the point of trying to stick round pegs in square holes (in either direction).
I can't and am not trying to speak to your situation. You have your experience, I have mine.
My experience is that I found a sensei wherein we were and are able to have a relationship of mutual trust. He taught me and helped me get through the program. In turn, I put up what money I needed to, learned the amount of Japanese I needed to get-by, took time off from work, traveled to Japan and various other shami training seminars and so on until finally Shingyo Dojo. I jumped through all the hoops and frankly was glad to do it - it was rewarding and I learned a lot - because I set out from the beginning to find out what it is that a traditional Japanese Nichiren Shu Buddhist priest has to learn and do and go through. I never had the feeling anybody was making things any harder for me than they were for a Japanese shami. In fact, in some ways I feel the other North American shami and myself were being accomodated quite a bit - particularly because of our lack of fluent Japanese. That meant they ahd to change their program and provide translators and translations. I would even say they went out of their way to help us get through.
I am sorry your experience was so different.
My experience with Nichiren Shu on the ground here in the Bay Area with the San Jose Temple is that there are no special prayer ceremonies and amulets are usually only given out at New Years to members (and those who request them) for a very nominal fee. It's just not what our temple does. Instead, we have meditation on the first Sunday of the month. Shodaigyo on the third Sunday followed by a roundtable Lotus Sutra study, and regular services the other Sundays. At Faithful Fools I have a pretty free hand to do things the way I see fit - to create what I feel is a viable North American form of Nichiren Shu Buddhism as per how I've been trained (but my version is not the only possible one - Rev. Faulconer, Rev. Barret. Rev. Warner, and several otehrs are each brining their own particular training and talents to the fore in their own areas and we are cooperating with each other as well).
My experience does not invalidate yours. But neither does your invalidate mine.
Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
Ryuei
"round pegs in square holes"
they generally fit, but slip right through and do not stay, or there are gaps. Now, the other way, square ones in round holes, that can require some pounding.
Posted by: robin at August 14, 2008 12:51 PMI just wanted to say this. When I visited London
with my mom last year we stayed down the street
from Suzanne's home and attended the Sangha meeting
there. It was wonderful, with young and older people
coming together. Even had two Anglican priests
chanting together with us. We discussed
Buddhist principles and how we can use them to
correct our lives. There is a large and solid
"family" of Nichiren Buddhists in Pimlico who
have been completely ignored since last October.
Absolutely no contact from their "home" temple and all attempts to write have been ignored.
This is a fact. Suzanne and her partner have
both worked very hard to connect with the Temple
who never responded. The temple is
ignoring this large group of people. It doesn't
square with my experience with Will Warner or the
Lexington Sangha...I think it's something more to
do with Europe and until now have kept my own
counsel.
I just want everyone reading here to know I've met
Suzanne and know her to be dedicated to helping
other people. She's not a "hothead" or trouble maker. She's done everything that's been asked of her by her teacher. It's very sad for Nichiren Shu to loose such a person.
Mediation is an absolute neccesity in any
large organization and I understand that NONA
has mediation policies in place. Maybe someone
in Europe will figure out that Western people don't take well to being ignored and shunned and
a mediation board could have dealt with this problem before it came to this point. Maybe now
someone less intolerant of our Western culture
will create a mediation council to step into these
situations before ill will is felt all around.
But I feel a great loss of the Pimlico Sangha. Kind of like putting in a stop light after someone dies at an intersection-a shameful waste.
I don't believe in airing others' problems but
it pains me to see my friends treated so disrespectfully. Also, it deeply pains me to
see my Sangha, Nichiren Shu, having priests who
think such treatment is in any way positive to
the growth of those they've committed to teaching.
It's made me cautious of teaching relationships until I know the person very, very well.
Buyer beware, I guess, is the best policy in
any student/teacher relationship. This also
makes me mindful that even those who've been
through priest's training can have lots more
to learn about compassion. Gassho, Patty
Hi Patty,
Yes, it is unfortunate that there have been so many problems and miscommunications in Europe. However, I am making a choice to stay out of it. I have my hands full with job, family, the San Jose Temple, Faithful Fools, my volunteer work for the NBIC, etc... It's not that I don't care. But there is nothing I can or should do for anyone in Europe other than to offer my teachings here online to anyone who finds them helpful in their own journey and practice. So it is not that I don't care or that I am powerless or that I want to pretend nothing is wrong. It is simply that I have to recognize my own limitations and not poke my nose into business that is not mine - and Europe is honestly not my business. Japan is not my business. Not even the entirety of the Bay Area is my business. In fact, the San Francisco Temple that is on the books is not my business. My business is to help those I am able to help and to take care of my own sensei and community and those who come to Faithful Fools for the program that I can take responsibility for.
If certainly wish the Nichiren Shu Sanghas in Europe well. I am not going to get drawn into any sides for or against anyone in Europe - whether they are in Nichiren Shu or not, current members or former members, ministers or laypeople. I am not there. I don't know the whole story. I am not going to make any judgements on anyone - and certainly not online.
Now as far as being very careful about entering into a teacher-student relationship (esp. a sensei-shami relationship) and the caution to let the buyer beware - I cannot agree with this more. I agree 1000%. I have been saying this for years. I would scream it from the rooftops if I could. There must be as much trust and mutual respect in the relationship as though one were entering into a marriage - maybe more!!! I think both shamis and senseis enter into these relationship without anywhere near the caution that they should - and the results are frequently disastrous.
You will notice that I have not taken on any shamis. I don't know if I ever will - but when I do I will have done my best to ensure the prospective shami is someone I could trust with my life. And even my own sensei put me off for quite a while, made me prove my sincerity many times, and even had me checked out by those he regarded as mentors and patrons before taking me on. If he had been more casual about it - I would have been disappointed.
Anyway, my view on shami-sensei relationships is not universal in Nichiren Shu. Other ministers do take a less strict and narrow approach. But they are free to do as they wish to their benefit or detriment - and I am free to do things my way (though of course we both have to conform to the Shumuin system and standards if we want our shamis to become full ministers).
Oh - and frankly, I think the various Buddhist groups take on members too casually and sometimes people are too casual about joining them. They don't really investigate what they are getting into first, and after they join they complain that the school is not conforming to their wishses. That is why I want those who come to me to join Nichiren Shu really take the time to learn and understand what Nichiren Shu is first, so they will not be surprised or blindsided by anything down the line.
Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
Ryuei
Ryuei,
I understand that you are not involved in Europe and that you have your own Sangha to deal with.
However, some of the implications of what you say are, I think, less than helpful. You say you are not in possession of the full picture in Europe -- of course you are not. But Suzanne was speaking of her own experience, and telling it accurately. Now she is someone I would 'trust with my life'-- I have been living with her for 20 years and know her to be an honorable and trust-worthy woman, who has spent an incredible amount of time and energy in the service of Nichiren, Nichiren Shu, and the people she is looking after here in Pimlico. I know that she thought long and hard before making a second attempt to become a shami. She knows a great deal about Japanese culture, so any problems could not readily be put down to cultural ignorance.
I am sad and concerned that, like many institutions, the Nichiren Shu priests have closed ranks in a way which leaves our Sangha homeless. The Japanese mythology of the 47 Ronin has a new resonance.
I rarely contribute to these discussions, but I see no reason why those who have become, for whatever reason, marginal to a group they have been committed to, intellectually, financially, and emotionally, should find themselves with so little support when it matters.
With respect,
Bridget
Posted by: Bridget Gilfillan Upton at August 15, 2008 01:28 AMHi Bridget.
You are never alone when you embrace the
Gohonzon, the lotus Sutra and Shakyamuni Buddha.
The sGI talks the stand alone spirit but the are the most dependent people on the planet. A true stand alone spirit can be modeled after Nichiren Daishonin.
Mark
Posted by: Mark Rogow at August 15, 2008 04:54 AMHi Bridgette,
Again, I was not taking sides, closing ranks, or believing or disbelieving anyone. I was saying that I refuse to do any of those things in fact. I certainly refuse to speculate or get into it online.
In any case, I have not heard of anyone being shut out of any temple that I am involved with and there are no top-down policies in NONA or Nichiren Shu itself that I know of to shut people out.
Maybe I'll regret asking this - but I am curious - how many of the people at Pimlico have received Jukai from Nichiren Shu or even been members of the Londong Temple?
Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
Ryuei