Hi all,
Recently there was a sudden death in our family. My wife's older sister passed away quite suddenly on July 11 in Japan while my wife and daughter were visiting with her other older sister. My daughter is only six years old (she'll be seven in August) and she was simply told that her aunt had gone to heaven. Julie attended the funeral and I am sure could not help but have observed that the occasion was very tragic. Nevertheless, when she saw her aunt's picture on the family butsudan she asserted that this was her aunt who lived in heaven now. As for Yumi, she also wanted to be assured that her sister would find a way to heaven and that our Odaimoku and sincere prayers would reach her and help her. I assured her that this would be the case, and even shared Nichiren's gosho (parts of it anyway by email and over the phone) "Wu-lung and I-lung" which discusses the story of how even a son's unwilling transcription of the titles of the eight volumes of the Lotus Sutra saved his late father, an enemy of the Lotus Sutra, from hell and enabled him to be reborn in heaven. If such was the case, how much more effective our sincere prayers and recitation of the Odaimoku and the Lotus Sutra for someone who may not have been a believer in the Lotus Sutra but who was not an enemy and had a simple respect for it.
But this is not the point of this blog. The curious thing is that as this tragedy was unfolding I was reading Brian's Dr. Science blog and having a discussion with him (yet again) about the meaning of rebirth. I found myself of two minds - the mind of a science minded skeptic who readily admits that there seems to be no medium by which to transmit a "rebirth consciousness" (as the sutras assert) from a deceased person to a newly concieved person. On the other hand, there is the side of me that is more willing to give the "universe" (for want of a better term) the benefit of the doubt and to believe that just because we have not found a way to measure or quantify something doesn't mean that it is not there - in this case a medium for the transmission of karma and even a type of consciousness so that a person's karma (good and bad) can continue to unfold until the delusion of self is overcome and buddhahood kicks into high gear.
But with the background of this family tragedy the inner debate within myself between the agnostic/skeptic and the traditionalist/believer became more than just an abstract exercise. It became quite a dilemma - what do I honestly tell my grieving wife and in-laws? What do I tell my daughter when she is back from Japan if she should ask more questions about her aunt? What do I tell myself?
In the end, I find that I can be honest and give the universe the benefit of the doubt for the sake of my loved ones and my own peace of mind. I can honestly say, along with Stephen Batchelor for instance, that I don't know what will happen to us when we die. Someone asked Zen Master Hakuin what happens when we die. "Why are you asking me?" he said. "Because you are a Zen Master." said the inquirer. Hakuin replied, "Yes, but not a dead one." I think that is the honest approach. But alongside that is the hopeful approach. This approach is that traditionally the Buddha asserted that there were other worlds, heavens, hells, and many things in between, and that our karma will unfold, and that while the future bearers of the karma we generate in this life are not identical to ourselves, neither are they totally different. There is not a fixed, unchanging identity, but there is a continuing stream of unfolding activity according to the Buddha. He furthermore claimed to have known this directly for himself and not as a result of "hammering it out" by speculation. That may or may not be the case, but I am willing to give this traditional teaching the benefit of the doubt until it can clearly be proven otherwise while admitting that I don't know the truth of this for myself yet. In this way I preserve my intellectual integrity but also a heart that hopes that even for the individual there may be more mercy and meaning in this universe than our finite minds are able to conceive of.
I say this because I can not know, but I do hope that for my sister-in-law, and for all those who have passed on and for all those who will, that there is indeed some greater reality which the symbol of heaven, or in the Lotus Sutra the Pure Land of Tranquil Light, points to beyond mere words of conciliation. I hope that there is a shining jewel of limitless light and life which can bring about the healing and even joy that many of us seem to miss here. For those of us who are spiritually mature enough to be able to awaken to it here and now, I also hope that even after death such will continue to unfold without end.
Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
Ryuei
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Thank You!
Posted by: Donna S. Millar at July 21, 2004 06:20 PMThank you for your sharing your personal thoughts on death. Your honesty is so refreshing. I too always have the intellectual/scientific part of me that says I don't know if there is an "after" death. I also prefer to hope there is some life, be it whatever form in karma, after we physically leave this life as we know it now. It is what I pray for for my family in the silent prayers of Gongyo.
Posted by: carol at July 22, 2004 09:55 PMMoving words. We "don't know," but are hopeful. Honestly, after reading your discussions with Brain, I felt sad for the readers because there is nothing complex about death and rebirth, and I scratched my head reading the exchanges. To me, it was like staring at a forest and the person next to me saying there are no such thing as trees. The fact that we are born, exist, have unique traits and destiny, and have a sense of "self" is proof that rebirth and self are truths. One need only read the Lotus Sutra and Buddha's discussions on the past lives of himself and his disciples, not to mention their future incarnations to know what Buddha taught. Science is not something that is indisputable, it is constantly changing. Thank you for your words.
Charles
Posted by: Charles at July 23, 2004 02:50 PM
I've thought about this a lot both before and after you posted. As much as it hurts to lose a loved one, when they are gone they are gone. I don't think it's right to say other than that wheather to a child or to an adult who is grieving. The cycles of nature don't show rebirth. The only evidence to the contrary are the NDE's and that is inconclusive. Other than satisfying the desire to exist what sense is there to a spirit world.Or if theres is an eternal
spirit world what is the point of this
earthly one. If there is rebirth in this world the person you loved is just as gone as if there was no rebirth.
Hi Phillip,
I am agnostic about this - so I no more "know" that they are just gone than I do that there is rebirth. However, as a Buddhist I have faith in the teachings of Shakyamuni Buddha and he asserted that there was indeed rebirth and that someone who dies is not just gone completely. To be sure there is no "self" but my undertanding of the Buddha's teachings is that there is a continuity of karmic action and interactions which conventionally gives rise to what we understand to be sentient beings. So I do not know directly if this is true, or how it really works, or if it can be proven scientifically or not. But as someone who is committed to the Buddha Dharma (since I find them meaningful and they have helped me make sense of my life) I am willing to give the Buddha, and thus life, the benefit of the doubt. So I feel that within those parameters it is certainly ok to share such a comforting perspective to my wife and daughter and others. For me, it is not just a comforting fairy tale that I am dishonestly fobbing off on my family and friends (and myself for that matter). Rather it is a real possibility to me that life is more than just what is bounded by birth and death. As the 16th chapter of the Lotus Sutra teaches - from the Buddha's point of view there is no birth or death, no appearance or disappearance, and this world of birth and death which seems like suffering to us is actually the Buddha's Pure Land if we could see it clearly without delusion or the biased belief in a self that can appear or disappear.
Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
Ryuei
I think to say that the person's actions leave a legacy after they are gone is proper. To say that "they" still exist somewhere is a falsehood both according to the buddha's teachings and to me common sense. I remember Kurt Vonnegut telling the story of attending a funeral where his son was officiating as a Unitarian Universalist minister. His son was the one who wound up breaking down and being consoled by the deceased family. Vonnegut concluded saying we needed to create better lies to tell ourselves. I think we would do better to face the truth.
Posted by: Philip Brett at July 30, 2004 10:11 AMTo say that positing some kind of existence after death is a lie seems to me to be every bit as presumptuous as to insist dogmatically that there is existence after death. It is my conviction that we do not know one way or the other - and so I will give the universe the benefit of the doubt. As for the Buddha - he did claim to know for himself that there was. The sutra passages are unequivocal on this point - that people are reborn in the six worlds. In addition, he does teach that there is not a "self" that is reborn but rather the karma and a rebirth consciousness. Brian and I have been arguing the feasability of this - but I do not think even Brian would try to deny that this is what the Buddha is recorded as teaching in the sutras. See my article "What is the Buddha Dharma" for more on the Buddha's teaching of mundane right views regarding life after death.
Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
Ryuei
Rebirth does not mean the person still exists as you know.
Posted by: Philip Brett at August 2, 2004 04:55 PMYes, we are agreed on that point. As Shakyamuni Buddha taught - the person is neither entirely the same nor entirely different. For instance, when I die, if there is indeed a carryover of some sort of karmic inheritance from this life to a new one - my gender will not necessarily carry over, my gender preference will not carry over, my nationality will not carry over, my ethnicity will not carry over, my height, weight, hair color, eye color, age at the time of death, and even my language and all the things I learned in school and all my memories of family and friends etc. will not carry over (unless they are considered to be stored in the alaya and accesible only through past life recall or somesuch though I have seen nothing too credible in this area as yet). In other words, all the things that I usually think of as "me" will not carry over. I could be reborn as an AIDS baby in subequatorial Africa for all I know. Or to a Mormon family in Utah. There are many hideous fates that await us if rebirth is true. But the carryover will be of a karmic inheritance - habitual patterns and the legacy of wholesome and unwholesome deeds and not a specific self-conscious identity.
Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
Ryuei
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Posted by: Ryuei at August 3, 2004 11:31 AMDear Ryuei,
I am deeply sorry for your loss. It has always been my feeling that there is continuity that runs through the commingling of existence and non-existence, and that our faith in the Lotus Sutra plays in that medium. Guitar strings are substantial, but when we strum them, the sound has no form*. Yet the sound transmits in all directions and is heard by all. The sound is neither string, nor hand. It brings about feeling and physical reaction, yet is not the same as these either. Yet non of these things are truly apart from one another.
Our faith, prayers, and intonation of devotion to the Lotus Sutra, I truly believe, are the same. Life is not the same as death, and an unseen veil separates them, but these are not apart from one another. Namu Myoho Renge Kyo resonates through it all.
As for a carryover of identity in life and death, I am told that I spoke, thought, and acted a certain way when I was 3. Pictures tell me some of it is true. But I cannot recall a single memory of who I was then. The only continuity of which I have any direct proof is my own existence. So whatever, if ever, passes from life to death to life, our memory of it probably wasn't that important to begin with. What does matter is our actions, and the impact of those.
Again, my sympathies to your family. Our prayers will resonate with her wherever she is. I promise.
Warmest Regards,
Brian
*The asterisk is because I am ignoring my own knowledge of physics with respect to my statement that sound has no form. It makes a point, however. For most of human existence, the true physics of sound was unknown. Yet now we understand a great deal. I am sure it is the same with an enlightened one and a common mortal as regards life and death. The Buddha has told us the way of understanding life and death, even as we could explain to Aristotle how sound transmits and is heard. Aristotle would have to take much on faith at first, but as he came to understand, he would soon have direct knowledge of sound. I think too that we put all our faith in the Lotus Sutra, and this enables our practice, study, and accumulation of merit to culminate in first hand knowledge and wisdom of existence and non-existence.
Brian
Posted by: Mr. B at August 20, 2004 05:40 AM