Reverend Greg

since November of 1968 ... I have not missed gongyo

wow! I read this in Cris Roman´s account on the Buddhajones website. That´s awesome! Not missing gongyo morning and evening in more than 35 years!

Greg Dear.... me and my family wanted to tell you "HAPPY BIRTHDAY".... B^)

Love Ya - Danna

hehe, it was indeed me who had been spamming on mccormick´s blog. nice guess. THE TRUTH SEEKER! LOL!

best regards
peter

Peter,

The reason I don't speak about the things that Lisa "heroically" speaks of is because I have no direct experience or knowledge of the things she does.

I do often speak of the cult aspect and function of SGI which I have seen and experienced, but not the "higher up" apsects that Lisa has written so exhaustively on.

Why does she know all this stuff? Hum.. let's think here. How is she able to write so heroically about all these evil things? Could it be because she herself was a paid cult employee?

Did she end her cult career with SGI based on her altruism and pure-hearted principles? Or was she perhaps cast out of the cult only then to seek out her revenge against those who wronged her....

Exactly, I don't know the answer either Peter, she never wrote about that. In fact, she never wrote much about her personal experience, only about how evil and cultish SGI is.

Fear culties. Fear ex-culties more. Be even more wary of those who appear to be unable to learn or evolve their perspective.

As far as your own journey, knock yourself out. Hope you find what you're looking for.

Rev. Greg

P.S. Peter, please stop spamming Rev. Ryuei's blog with excerpts from Lisa's site. I don't think Lisa would appreciate it either.

I have something to add... It was like Jussi said last year... Jussi seems to me to be a very sincere person, and he wrote critically of your criticism of Lisa Jones´ (eh) criticism... While it is obvious to Europeans such as me and Jussi that Lisa Jones was only writing plain facts on SGI. Facts which it is unethical of the org. to not disclose to its members. But Lisa Jones, heroically, disclosed them. What is so wrong about that? Everything she wrote was backed up by clear evidence.

I was just trying to say something positive about SGI for a change. The term "SGI´ism" is maybe a bit strange. But I really mean that my time in SGI had a positive effect on me. I´ve taken refuge in a more main-stream Tibetan Buddhist Sangha in Copenhagen now. Only my great belief in my buddha-nature which I was taught in SGI enabled me to practice Buddhism.

It just seems to me that you, like almost any other SGI´er I´ve known simply refuse to speak about the controversial aspects about it. This is quite boring since the discourse of books like "Combatting Cult Mind Control" are very interesting. If one just speaks about ones own life in connection with SGI it doesn´t have anything to do with SGI does it? So why not use this website to speak openly about the controversial aspects of SGI?

Best regards
Peter

Rev. Greg:

There have been some very interesting comments on the master-disciple relatiohsip. I wanted to add just a couple more points.

I'm not sure that I agree with some of the opinions expressed, but I do certainly respect them.

The old adage of "when the student is ready, the teacher appears," has been proven to me several times in my life. There was a time in my late teens and early twenties, that I longed for a master, yet nothing appeared. Finally, my prayer was answered when I met Yogi Bhajan, the great Kundalini master. He accepted me as his disciple with the warning, "you're never going to make it!" And he was right because once I got by the rapture, became competent at the practice, and developed an understanding of his teachings, I realized that he was NOT my master, and his teachings were not for me. In less than a year I began to chant and had a dream of PI singing to me in a dream. Did I pick him? Did he pick me? Or, had we had a connection that preceeded and transcended this life? I chose the latter.

I also agree with Rev. Greg that mentor-student relationship (which is a secular version of the same ideal as shitei funi) is integral to human development. My experience with this phenomena has made me into what I am today.

I was a high level athlete in school, recruited by dozens of colleges to play basketball and or track. Because of my personality, the universe conjured up the most brutal, hard-ass coaches and mentors to lay the rod on my sorry ass, to get me to live up to my potential. I have been berated, humiliated, and struck in front of a thousand spectators. I attracted the Woody Hayes type coaches that beat you down, to later lift you up. I acheived the highest level but was soured on collegiate sports so I went into the military where I met my drill sergeant in boot camp. He was a R. Lee Ermey clone.

Then I became an NSA youth division leader with Richard Sasaki as one of my mentors. My other mentor, Joe Firoved was as strict as any gakkai leader could be. I love these two men more than words can express, and I can tell you that they had their hands full helping me crack the shell of my lesser ego.

So, the moral of the story is that a master must understand their disciple to know how to raise them, and the disciple must learn the spirit of the master to fulfill their expectation and carry on the tradition. For me, it was no Broadway musical, but more like a decade of boot camp. The result was a disciple who could face cancer and death, or any tyoe of obstacle, and ultimately triumph. Without that strict training, I wouldn't be making this comment. The way of master-disciple is not an easy one, but it is the way of the warrior.

Charles

Interesting discussion.

In the west the words mentor/master to many people does not mean anything deeper than “the boss” and “teacher”. To the western mind it is demeaning to consider someone your “master” and teachers are belittled as “those who cannot do”. It is not surprising westerners view eastern mentor-disciple fervor with suspicion.

Mentor-disciple is not static and it cannot be fully understood as 2 separate entities.

The mentor is a function of the disciple. It is up to the disciple’s seeking spirit to draw out the mentor’s wisdom. If the mentor is lacking then the disciple is not seeking hard enough. Or, to put it another way, if the disciple’s seeking spirit supersedes that of the mentor then the role’s become reversed.

The mentor and disciple are of one mind. This does not mean “if the leader wears white then we must wear white”. They are of one mind with respect to the goal. Each, utilizing the strengths of their inherent uniqueness, takes appropriate action in the moment to support the other in attaining the goal. I may not wear white but my colors will complement rather than distract or overshadow.

Tap your faith and practice to lose the ego and arrogance and you fully activate the disciple. The mentor responds accordingly.

IMHO

Mark

Rev. Greg-
Imortant topic. Many observations on many sides. I'm surprized it isn't discussed more often and at greater length.

The master/mentor-disciple relationship has been one of the most miss understood relationships. I have just recently gleamed that the disciple picks the mentor. Not the other way around. It cannot, or should not, be mandated. Which well may be the source of many cult watch critics and not without reason. In addition, many overly enthusiastic individuals may claim discipleship without understanding what that relationship entails and the responcibility that accompanies it for both parties. And many of these same individuals may have been encouraged to do so without a second thought. I think it's great that you are addressing it.

Oh dear, I have a sudden mad impulse to fill the page with words ;-)
Only joking. What I really want to point out is how my lack of understanding of the master disciple relationship nearly spoiled my entire practice, marriage and life.
When I first started 20 years ago to practice here in Japan my head was full of Catholic hang-ups. First and foremost was the problem of authority. I was educated in a boarding school run by the very conservative Christian Brothers who sure taught me to hate authority and religion. Having escaped to Japan, I took up interest in Buddhism and found myself immediately faced with a hysterical adoration and devotion to PI. Members tried to drum into my head this concept of master and disciple, but they were targeting it at PI more than the Daishonin. Then to make matters worse, I fell in love with a Japanese woman, who I married and subsequently shakabukued. My wife became a very devote member and added to my pressure in this area. For many years, I fought against everything in the organization. I hated the idiots pushing this concept and actually left for two years. I realized that a big part of my life was suddenly missing and on a whim decided to start attending meetings again to see if it would make a difference. Not only that, I also took the plunge and joined the ranks of the enemy by joining the Soka Han, I am not sure what the US counterpart is, but Soka Han are those people who help out behind the scenes at all functions and events. This was the best thing I could possibly have done for myself. I got to meet a different breed of leader. The type who were close to PI and saw him as a man not a god, a teacher not a figure of authority and a caring human with a deep interest in the well being of all members. These leader had long put aside their own egotistic needs in the organization and were only concerned with helping people to achieve happiness. Surprise,surprise, they also recognized that there were many misguided individuals in the organization. They took time out to explain to me the things PI was working to achieve, and how their involvement was 100% in support of these activities.
They did not hang on every word PI said, they frequently disagreed and, as was I, were often amazed at the public reaction to, and the efforts of, PI in meeting and holding dialogues with leading dignitaries and world leaders that were considered to be evil. I refer here to a lot of issues that came about through meetings with the Head of the KGB and other Russian leaders that did not have the best of reputations at that time. The whole point behind PI`s efforts where to extend a hand a friendship and clear the way for open dialogue. Yes PI did, make a number of mistakes, and some efforts did not go according to plan, but the intention behind these efforts was truly noble.
So what am I trying to say?
It was only by becoming involved and playing my part that I truly came to understand the master disciple relationship.
It is a relationship of faith, made in faith, to strengthen my own faith. In matters of faith, I defer to PI, but not blindly. He has shown me he is worthy of this, but I would never let him tell me what color shirt to wear. If I have any regret it is that I had to suffer so much to finally understand. When I read Danna`s post to you "When you put that much energy into hate it means you're not putting any energy in love." it was almost as if she was talking directly to me all those years ago. It is exactly what I was told at that time"Take all that negative energy you are wasting on hate, energy which really only hurts yourself, and redirect for good." I really hope you can do this, you have heard it before, but I will say it again, it worked for me, it worked for people I know, it will work for you.
Good luck with your quest.

Peter,

What we're reading, If I may speak for others, is your endless and unrelenting sarcasm.

If that's what floats you boat, then sail on.

Rev. Greg

P.S. Nice to hear from you again Danna. Hope everything is alright with you and yours.

If you see any anger or hatred in my comment it comes from yourselves.

It is good to learn from your master in the area that he is the master of, but one should never think of the master as perfect in all areas or you have doomed the relationship from the very beginning. Nobody will be able to live upto such ideals, Not even SGI and PI.

Peter... When you put that much energy into hate it means you're not putting any energy in love.

Peter:

You must realy feel that you've been harmed, misled, and betrayed by the SGI and PI. Your comments ooze with anger and hate.

It's unfortunate that you have not been able to reconcile these feelings. It seems to me that no matter how justified one feels about being slighted by the SGI, it's leaders, and so forth, there must be a positive side to the experience - even if that positve side seems elusive. I have written about my own painful experiences with ther SGI, but I have no malice whatsoever for the organization and people who raised me in faith.

What about learning to practice? What about encountering the Gohonzon? What about sincere, well meaning people teaching you about faith, listening to your problems, and giving you encouragement? Don't let the bad part of your experience overshadow the good.

Regarding the master-disciple relationship, many people have expressed to me how difficult it is to realize this bond with PI because they have never met him, and have only been trained by him through his writings and by people who live by his guidance. Fair enough, to a certain level. I personally believe that it is possible to develop a master-disciple relationship even though one hasn't had direct one-on-one training by that mentor. This is possible by learning from others, more experienced who have, perhaps, a greater grasp of the master's teachings. It is also possible (I believe) by mystic connection through the Gohonzon and the master's writings, whomever that master might be, to develop your life and manifest enlightenment.

In my case, I know PI and he knows me. I was his body guard twice, he has written me letters, and I have studied his writings. Even though I have a direct connection with him, I do not follow him blindly, and I disagree with him on quite a few matters.

Peter, please don't allow your anger to blind you to the positive qualities that Buddhism teaches.

Charles

Yeah, I have to agree with Greg, Charles and Peter. I have done this myself, and seen others do the stuff about connecting with Sensei´s heart, and I/they were really very POSITIVELY affected by it! I hope a glorious new era of SGI´ism will dawn on the New World and bring about a Time of Prosperity and Wisdom.

Hallelujah! Hallelujah! The Lord indeed is Awesome.

It's old news. As I said, speaking for myself, I seperate the function from the person. Admitting what we know for sure, and what we don't know is often the difference between being a cultie, or not.

Culties scramble to defend things they can't really know for sure, because they want them to be true, or not true, depending on the spin.

Rev. Greg

just a few facts on Ikeda´s actions in the past...
nothing wrong with criminals naming islands after ikeda i guess...

Well FactsonIkeda,

You didn't really read my blog, did you? Anyway, thanks for taking the time to write and checking is as the token "cult fighter" function.

Rev. Greg

Sensei's Activities for Peace and Culture

Daisaku Ikeda presents a humanitarian award to his friend Manuel Noriega. SGI Graphic reported at the time that as a mark of their friendship, Noriega named a small Panamanian Island "Ikeda Island". Japanese press reported that Soka Gakkai returned the gesture by naming the gardens of their Fujinomiya training center "Les Jardins Noriega" allegedly inscribing this on a bronze plaque which has now been covered up by a box. Ikeda's friendship with the convicted cocaine trafficker, torturer and rapist goes back a long way.

Birds of a Feather

Ikeda also formed a close friendship and swapped "humanitarian" medals with one of history's most evil totalitarian dictators - the torturing abuser of human rights, Romania's Nicolai Ceaucescu, who was later shot by his own people following the overthrow of Communism.

Rev. Greg
My post probably paraphrases Charles` post, but hear goes.
How nice to see people comment positively on the "master and disciple" relationship. It is amazing how this one little saying has been the cause of so much misunderstanding and hardship. Many seem to believe (not just in Japan) that this relationship is sacrosanct, and that it only possible (and should be our solitary target) to have this relationship with PI and that this is the whole point behind the practise in SGI. What a load of rubbish. This relationship is probably more likely and more important to develop with the person who shakabukued one in the begining. As a matter of fact, IMHO, our entire life is spent forming different master & disciple relationships. Examples include, PI, martial arts, marridge, raising children, running a company, learning to play an instrument. In other words I believe that it is both a lot more common than we think, and a lot less mystical that we think. There are of course different levels or grades of relationship, and the importance of the one we develope in our practise with PI/Nichiren cannot be over stated.

“sect”, in a wider sense, also means a religious minority (Dictionnaire des religions, PUF, 1984). The list established by the French Renseignements généraux has listed more than 200 organisations as sectarian movements, from small groupments (less than 50 members) to much larger organisations such as Scientology Church, Soka Gakkai or Jehovah Witnesses (see: Rapport Gest-Guyard, section I-B). Some of these organisations are claiming ties with mainstream religions, others are more of a spiritual/philosophical inspiration.

Rev. Greg:

I really enjoyed this blog. The master-disciple relationship is, in my mind, the most crucial element to development, whether it's as a Buddhist, an athlete, or as an artist. Some might argue that the master-disciple relationship in Buddhism is not the same as it is in, say, the fine arts, etc. But I disagree. One needs a teacher and they need to strive in learning the lesson.

The culties, the anti-culties, and the those who ignore the magical thinking that makes up a great part of SGI Buddhism often miss the point of learning the lesson that the master teaches, then applying it to daily life.

Some people may be confused with my attitude regarding the SGI - the ground of faith where I learned how to advance. Some may believe that because I no longer promote SGI activities and I have questioned SGI doctrine, ethics, and the wealth of PI, that I am somehow against the SGI. Hogwash!

I have said it before, and I will say it again. PI is my Buddhist master, and nothing will ever change that fact. In my own way, like a tusker, I have absorbed the lesson of advancing the Lotus Sutra and shunned the distraction of flag waving fanatics whose agenda I understand less than my tax form.

Thanks for sharing.

Charles