Reverend Greg

Hi all,

What a wonderful dialogue unfolded here! My infatuation with NCAA basketball prevented me from getting over here. Looks like good stuff and I am going to set here at read all of it.
And I was pleased with 13 comments?

robin

Rev. Greg:

My apologies. Please feel free to call be any name you like - twice. No harm was ever intended. I guess it was your intensity that caused that word to be chosen. Thanks for hosting the frankenstien monster of Nichiren Buddhism. Great blog.

Charles

Charles et all;

I've enjoyed this blog too, very much. I have a complaint however I would like to address to you;
You've used the word "militant" twice in replies to me. Even at my most "pro-Gakkai" I don't really feel I deserve the label "militant".

I know you have certainly experienced "militant" in NSA/SGI, I just don't think I qualify.

Rev. Greg, Shidoshi

For Dan and Chikushonin:

You've both read about my experience and opinions about the SGI. I see wisdom in both your perspectives.

The experience of Chikushonin is nearly identical to my own. I have engaged in impressive, diverse, and profound Gakkai activities like you, Dan. In fact, the very chapter you are in was started by myself and ex-wife in a reorganization from growing and splitting Great Lakes chapter. I spent every waking moment for 13 years building the very organization that you enjoy today. Knowing you, I believe that it's in good hands.

I wanted to add something to the fray of a personal nature - my own thumb nail sketch of the SGI and me.

Contrary to what some might think, I regard president Ikeda as my teacher. No matter what anyone has said about him, nor what he might have done - I really don't care because my heart has always been bonded with his.

I had the honor of spending a couple of weeks protecting and attending to PI during is visits to Chicago. PI is a master of the highest order and a deeply compassionate man. I collected countless beautiful and moving moments. No one can dismiss or come between me and my teacher.

With that said, I'm deeply troubled by the SGI here in America. I've been in Gakkai exile for two years. I have been moved to take the lessons of my great teacher and apply them independently to the world at large. The last communication I received from PI was a personal letter thanking me for writing Modern Buddhist Healing. He said:

"Congratulations on the successful publication of your excellent book. Thank you for the gift copy to me. I pray for your continued good health and success in your important endeavors."

Daisaku Ikeda

I have always been ready to help transform the SGI into a great movement. The reason that I am not welcome is because of my refutation of erroneous core doctrines and my objection to dirty policies and practices by the corporate elite. I've always wanted one leader with guts to tell me just how wrong I am. They won't come because they don't know how to deal with me.

I'm for the SGI in the sense that I grew up there. I still regard PI as my greatest teacher in life so far. But my allegiance is to the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas of the universe and the Lotus Sutra. I have become, by neccesity a "solitary Bodhisattva of the Earth," a group that outnumbers all other kinds of Bodhisattvas twice over (see Emerging from the Earth, LS).

I've truly enjoyed this round on Rev. Gregs site.

Charles

Dear Dan,

I sincerely thank you for sharing your thoughts. If the SGI were open to doing likewise, I, along with many thousands of others, would still be a valued member of the organization.

This is not a rant, nor do I have any bitterness towards the SGI. To be sure, there was a time that I was extremely angry and frustrated with the leadership. Even at that time I never passed judgment on the general membership of the SGI. My anger and frustration stemmed from the total contradiction of what the organization claimed to be, the ideal that I worked to support 24/7. Believe it or not, I still do.

The SGI is a top-down organization, no matter how much the leadership claims that it is bottom-up or horizontal. It’s leadership, is corrupt. They delude themselves into believing that the organization is more important than their own lives. The organization, itself, is their object o worship and the Daimoku, the Gohonzon, the writings of Nichiren, and Lotus Sutra are secondary, degenerated and twisted to be used as tools to grow the organization. Gabrielle did well it calling it and ersatz community.

This is not a rant. It is a calm unemotional statement of facts.

You write: “There's nothing wrong with a healthy and indignant letter to the editor.” Dan, you won’t get an answer. But I had one letter non-answered. But that was only after several top area leaders asked the Editor to answer it, I managed to meet the Editor face-to-face in a public setting (at that time he refused to discuss it, and offered to respond in writing to avoid public discussion), and after several months, and challenge over the phone with a direct question, “Do you have any intention whatsoever of responding as you have promised?’ I got a non-committal reply that did not answer my question. From there I went into remonstration mode. Indignant? Hell yes.

Never had that letter answered directly either. The indirect answer was in the form of guidance form L.A., “He is dangerous. Don’t give him an audience.” Then the local leaders, some of which had petitioned the Editor on my behalf, while never discussing the letters content with me or anyone else, went on a home visitation campaign telling every member I had contact with to stay away from me, that I was an evil influence. When I wrote to you what I did, its basis was in actual fact. Trust me, such treatment of members is not exclusive to me; even those who post here would concur, but perhaps won’t, weary of beating a dead horse.

I am happy for you that you are enjoying yourself in the SGI. So did I, but good standing is conditional. I have no regret about the years of dedication in the SGI. I am sorry for the persons there that are attached to a lesser good that destroys the potential for greater good. I have even more compassion for the so-called Leaders who praise the Lotus Sutra but destroy its heart.

While I have never encourage anyone to leave the SGI, or any other Nichiren Sect, I will continue to do what I can to fulfill the mission of Nichiren and the Lotus Sutra. That mission, simply stated, is to awaken a great seeking mind towards Buddhahood as manifest reality, and autonomous self-practice. At times, this includes clearly pointing out what is wrong in order to express what is in accord with doctrine. What is called Nichiren Buddhism begins and ends with Nichiren’s Rissho Ankoku Ron. (English, ‘Securing the Peace of the Land through the Propagation of True Buddhism’)

You wrote, “If some of SGI doctrines are wrong, then they're wrong. Simple as that. And there will come a reckoning of that but not I believe in ways that harm, slander, insult, misjudge any person - SGI or not.”

Dan, this statement reveals a total ignorance of Nichiren and the Lotus Sutra. Ignorance is not an insulting term, nor do I mean to insult you or suggest that you have ‘weak faith’; ignorance simply means that one’s knowledge or understanding of the topic at hand is lacking. Ignorance is easily overcome, but arrogance towards it is a grave slander affecting self, other, and the realm of the environment.

The top leadership of the SGI is not completely ignorant of their errors in doctrine. They arrogantly chose to distort doctrine to gain support for the growth of the organization and fear that if they admit any error this will cause the members to doubt and leave. They fear this because they believe that the growth of the organization equals securing the peace of the land through the propagation of True Buddhism. The problem is that what they are propagating is a mixture of truth and falsehood; it is self-serving. What they teach is an ersatz teaching. Therefore SGI is and ersatz community. Nichiren would admonish the leadership’s behavior as grave slander, as do I. While the Leadership of the SGI trumpets their resolve to defend the doctrines of so-called True Buddhism against all comers, in reality they are like a bragging bully who runs and hides, cowardly refusing to come out of the house the first time a little runt like me stands up to him.

There is one more question that I would like to reply to, “Now, chikushonin, you're getting into is one's faith [as] weak for not questioning doctrine of their faith? Or are you looking at someone's entire life (which you or I can't) and making that call?

What I am looking at is the present moment in the context of eternity. All that exists is the present moment. The past is past and if you embrace the law of causality, the circumstances of the present are reflections of the past, the future is not here yet but tomorrow, today’s behaviors will be in the past and the reflection then will include the karmic rewards of this present moment--and every other moment that has past. Eternity exists in the present moment; one’s entire life exists in the present moment, which is ever-present yet constantly changing. There is nothing fixed about existence; therefore there is always hope.

As for making judgments, we have to--and constantly. The purpose of faith in the Gohonzon and the Lotus Sutra is to awaken the wisdom of all Buddhas so that we can learn to trust that wisdom, make correct judgments and thereby manifest in our actions the wisdom appropriate to the circumstances of the present moment overcoming the influence of our karmic tendencies.

Then what is the meaning of correct faith in the Gohonzon and the Lotus Sutra? The Lotus Sutra is said to contain much praise and few instructions. Chapter 17 states, “"Again, if after the Thus Come One has entered extinction there are those who hear this sutra and do not slander or speak ill of it have already shown deep faith and understanding. How much more in the case of persons who read, recite and embrace this sutra! Such persons are in effect receiving the Thus Come One on the crown of their heads.”

The Nirvana Sutra states in praise of the Lotus Sutra, “"Whether one believes or does not believe, he shall directly be born in the Buddha land," and "If there are persons who, there in the place of Buddhas numerous as the sands of the Hiranyavati River, have conceived the aspiration for enlightenment, then even in this evil age they will be able to embrace and uphold a sutra such as this and will not slander it."

What I understand from my own experience, and is supported by the passages in these sutras, is that correct faith has nothing to do with believing not believing, nothing to do with understanding or not understanding, and nothing to do with whether or not in this present moment one manifest delusion or enlightenment; correct faith is found in awakening and maintaining a seeking mind towards the possibilities of Buddhahood.

Am I making judgments here? Hell yes. And they are solidly based in doctrine, theory, and reality—both subjective and objective.

Dan, I appreciate talking with you. I have never truly left the SGI. If anything, the SGI left me. They will be back someday.

As always, please feel free to correct my errors. It is a kindness.

Sincerely, chikushonin
PS: If you want know when I am truly on a ” healthy and indignant” rant, email me and I’ll send you a copy of the letter to the Editor mentioned above.

Queen Lolo:

Thanks for your reply - I'm muy simpatico with all your comments.

Dan:

Regarding SGI stuff, perhaps it's agreeing-to-disagree-time in the Defensor and Wise households.
Bottome line for me: I respect your choices and I'm glad you're having a good experience.

Gabrielle

Can you believe this blog has gotten 51 comments (so far!)? Is this a record?

hi,
chikushonin said:If we hold up the standards and intent of Nichiren and the Lotus Sutra to the SGI’s behavior towards members who have done as little as ask sincere questions of which the asking itself is reason to be admonished for having incorrect and weak faith, the SGI is definitely an ersatz community.

No, that's not what I read into the ersatz community comment. When you're confusing disagreement with 'doctrine' and mischaracterizing or pigeonholing anyone as a cultie/herdmentality/groupthink --- then I have somewhat a problem with that.

Doctrine is doctrine. WE can always agree, disagree. Now, chikushonin, you're getting into is one's faith weak for not questioning doctrine of their faith? Or are you looking at someone's entire life (which you or I can't) and making that call? I humbly agree that if you practice Buddhism, you have to eventually get around to the details of its doctrine(s). If some of SGI doctrines are wrong, then they're wrong. Simple as that. And there will come a reckoning of that but not I believe in ways that harm, slander, insult, misjudge any person - SGI or not. There's nothing wrong with a healthy and indignant letter to the editor. Or a ranting blog.

best,

Dan

Garbrielle,

No no no, you didn't come of as being intolerant and I hope I didn't come off as being offended or offensive. I am sure I don't have as much experience with the SGI or other Buddhist groups as you, and I'm not a group-type person. So I tend to take a more detached view all such matters, and base my opinions on whether or not I like being with the people involved or not. And, as I've said before, I haven't been to an SGI meeting in a long, long time. So that speaks for itself.

The same divisions and issues are battled within the homeschooling community too, by the way. There are homeschoolers who consider themselves "unschoolers" and those who consider themselves "religious homeschoolers" and those who do a "classic education" format and those who are more progressive. Put all these types in one room and things can get pretty riled up. Just as I consider myself an "eclectic" Buddhist, I consider myself an unaffiliated homeschooler. In fact, I this attitude pretty much extends to everything in my life. Because I've found that the minute I label myself a this-or-that, or sign up for a specific brand of anything, my preferences change and I feel hemmed in. (Although I've been married to the same man for 20 years so it's not a fear of committment.) I thrive on change and like to experience new ideas all the time.... That's why I love this website!

Lolo,

By the way, I think there's much merit in homeschooling.
I couldn't agree more about not judging what makes others tick and the like. And I'm very passionate about giving the benefit of the doubt wherever I can. After caring so much, I would love to be able to hold the SGI, or other groups, in the highest esteem. I believe that my opinions about the SGI stem from many years of experience and lots of introspection over time, not from subjective prejudices. I too have known progressive SGI members, but in my experience, most of them don't remain that way. I have found that a progressive mind-set has a short shelf life in that particular organization. Gosh, I would love nothing more if that weren't the case. Having had many more negative experiences than positive, I think it's reasonable to draw some sort of overarching conclusion for myself that what goes on there is more unhealthy than not.
There are other organizations that I'm part of that I would evaluate more positively, based on my predominant experience with them.
I truly do my best to come from a place of making informed conclusions from my experiences and direct observation of others' over time, not from making rash, unfair judgments. I apologize if I have come across as doing otherwise.

Gabrielle

Hi Gabrielle,

Group think and company drones? If that's all you see, hear, or speculate about of the members of SGI -- then you are missing out on a lot. Or deliberately being intolerant. But even that's not fair for me to say.

I won't change your minds or have such expectations that I want you to agree with me. Or that I don't like your politics, lifestyle or alliances. The question is are you or I willing to deal with each other as a buddha or not.

That's a tough thing to do. I too have my foibles and dislikes. I'd like to take the time to frame an elegant answer or an answer you may want to read. Straight up, you're wrong about characterizing members of the SGI as drones & group/herd think/cultie whatever.

But to prove that to any of you, I don't think that's not my burden necessarily. I'd like to try but I don't know you other than the pixels we exchange with each other through this limited way of communication. I'll see if I can devote some time.

best to you,

Dan
SGI kinda guy

Gabrielle, I wasn't involved in the SGI long enough to judge if my friend's comment was indicative of a "sea change" in the organization, or simply an expression of the kind of person she is as an individual. I lean toward the latter explanation, and my guess is that she has always been the way she is. I shy away from generalizing about "organizations" and "groups" and try to see each person for who they are. I have met SGI members that are as fanatical as any Moonie cultist, and I have met SGI members who are opened minded and fun to be around. I think the bottomline is "to each his own" and we shouldn't judge others for what works for them in their lives. I've seen and had enough of this in my own life as a homeschooling family and frankly, it's a waste of time.

Dan,

Kissy-kissy hug-ins are (obviously, I think) not at all what I'm purporting. In fact, there is plenty of that at the culture center in my area, to the point of being embarrassing, but there is no genuine sentiment behind it. As Chikushonin just alluded, any regard, conditional as it is, goes to those members who succumb to the group-think and become company drones. Some folks would comment that all spiritual and religious groups inevitably come to this, but there are many groups out there which disprove that belief.

Chikushonin: Thanks for understanding where I was coming from and "getting my delivery," as they say. Once again, you marshall the evidence from the writings to prove your points. Your approach to study is quite elegant.

Gabrielle

Gabrielle

Ersatz: , n., substitute
: being a usually artificial and inferior substitute or imitation.

Dan,

Gabrielle has got it right. She has seen past the veneer. There are plenty of prayer groups, gardening clubs, and a well managed and funded daycare center or co-op might engage in all the wonderful children activities that you have listed.

There is nothing unique or extraordinary about these functions. The unique function that the SGI was meant to fulfill at its inception was to propagate the teachings of Nichiren, in accord with the teachings of Nichiren.

The SGI claims to be the sole organization, community of believers, which upholds the Teachings of Nichiren and the Lotus Sutra. Fact of the matter is that corporate SGI use these as tools to grow the organization; growth and survival of the organization has become their primary concern. When it comes to protecting the organization—the welfare of individuals is secondary. On this point alone the SGI fits the definition of an ersatz community.

If we hold up the standards and intent of Nichiren and the Lotus Sutra to the SGI’s behavior towards members who have done as little as ask sincere questions of which the asking itself is reason to be admonished for having incorrect and weak faith, the SGI is definitely an ersatz community.

They have no desire to discuss the validity of their doctrines, as you will find out should you ever challenge or question. Everything is about growing and protecting the organization. Your good standing with the organization continues on the condition that you support the organizations goals and not ask embarrassing questions. Should you ever persist in doing so, you will be driven out or shunned in order to “protect the members and the purity of the organization”.

I have no axe to grind here. These are just the unembellished facts.

Culture and Community integrate the aspects of belief and behaviors. Buddhism teaches that the realm of Living Beings and the realm of the environment are respectfully the spiritual interactions and physical behaviors of the entities of life that dwell there.

Both the community and the culture are reflections of the life entities that abide there. If minds are impure so is the land.

If the culture of the SGI is impure it is the reflection of the teaching they embrace. If the teaching that the SGI practices in its community is not pure, it is not the Lotus of the Wonderful Law. If it is not the Lotus of the Wonderful Law the environment is a burning house fraught with peril.

Rissho Ankoku Ron 101.

Queen Lolo,

Thanks for sharing that heartening exchange. If your friend's openess is indicative of a real sea change, a major paradigm shift in the SGI, that would be glorious. Keep us posted on your eight-year-old's wise utterances.
Speaking for myself, it's not absolute perfection I seek in a sangha. But as the line goes in Sweet Charity, "There's got to be someplace better than this!" Again, for me it's about progress, not perfection.

Gabrielle

Ersatz community?

Where the heck have some of you guys been for SGI meetings? I just spent a few days of this week like chanting with SGI members about a member in ICU Wednesday, a discussion meeting where the topic was about faith and enlightenment based on each person's experience which became fun and self-denigrating silly, and who the hell goes to culture centers looking for kumbayah kissy-kissy hug-ins? I go there to chant, take care of business when I can which I did this Sunday. After chanting I walked into the occasional conversation on the latest guidance with a few members, the jibes about the 'pink' barbie plastic butsudans on sale in the bookstore, reading about the performers slated for the monthly Peace Concerts open to the public, and watching the elementary school division children having fun with their mentoring class learning about dance, photography, cooking, art, Korean drums, creating websites, karate, photography, songwriting, and the parents & volunteers who've volunteered to mentor them and extra hours working behind the scenes.

If that's not a 'community' , then you're probably out of touch.

best,

Dan

Last week I emailed one of my blog articles to the leader of the SGI group I have spent the most time with. It was the blog titled "My Disclaimer," talking about how I embrace all types of Buddhism and don't subscribe to any one tradition. It was a friendly email, with the article attached saying "I don't think you'll agree with this, but..."

Tonight, out of the blue, I unexpectedly bumped into her at a supermarket. She said to me, "I read your article and it was wonderful! Very well written." I must have looked surprised because she added, "I don't know why you thought I'd disagree with it. I'm not here to judge you, I'm here to support you." It was a wonderful exchange that immediately alleviated my feelings that being away from the SGI group would cause a rift in our friendship (which goes back to a time before I joined the group.) I feel inclined to share this here for what I think are obvious reasons. As my 8-year said as we walked away, "See? You just never know." (Have I mentioned that my children are my best dharma teachers?)

Community is wonderful, but I think I and others have the accumlated experience to surmise that at the end of the day, the SGI is an erzats community, unfortunately.
I gave the place 17 active years of devotion from my heart - a respectable college try.
I don't think there is any real presence of caring there, and I truly state that without a trace of unrealistic or mawkish sentimentalism. Once members are outside the confines of the culture center or the meeting place, everyone goes there separate ways like ships in the night and becomes strangers again. It's all so conditional at the SGI - support and positive regard comes to those who fall in with the party line, etc. I won't go on, as I'm sure I'm saying nothing new to most of you. For those of you who have had better experiences with the place, I'm happy for you.
I didn't plan to rant; I just wanted to state the obvious - that a true community helps far more than harms.

Gabrielle

de nada

Chiku and Lolo....

T H A N K Y O U

Rev. Greg, Shidoshi

Geez! Do you think maybe Greg is playing the Devil’s advocate and is ROFLHAO?

Ooooo, I like this discussion. I feel a blog coming on.... FYI, isn't it interesting which topics elicit comments and which don't? Some blog entries get no remarks at all. But include the letters "S-G-I" in a blog and you end up with mountains of feedback -- this one is up to over 30 already! (Writers: If you want to write something that everyone will read, title it: "The Real Secrets of the SGI." Ha.. ha.. ha.

Greg, I'll agree with Charles, the Queen, Ryuei, et al, and not with you. I think you are too attached to your own notions to "allow" that there might be other acceptable paths, and means of accessing community. Your response barely veils your disdain, in my opinion, for those of us who you believe are quitters.

Too bad, that. Try to open out a bit, my friend.

Cheers!

Andy

For my part I would point to what the Buddha said when two factions of monks were quarreling in Kosambhi and refused to even let the Buddha reconcile them. The Buddha left the Sangha to its devices and said:

"If you can find a trustworthy companion
With whom to walk, both virtuous and steadfast,
Then walk with him content and mindfully,
Overcoming any threat of danger.
If you can find no trustworthy companion
With whom to walk, both virtuous and steadfast,
Then, as a king who leaves a vanquished kingdom,
Walk like a tusker in the woods alone.
Better it is to walk alone:
There is no fellowship with fools.
Walk alone, harm none, and know no conflict;
Be like a tusker in the woods alone."

The laity in the meantime stopped supporting these monks. Effectively the Sangha had become so dysfunctional that instead of helping each other and the laity attain enlightenment they were becoming a hinderance. Finally the starving monks got the hint, made the effort to seek out the Buddha and reconciled.

The lesson I draw from all this is this - when your spiritual journey is now in spite of rather than because of your chosen Sangha, then it is time to vote with your feet and your pocketbook. Nichiren himself said that after three times trying to remonstrate with the religious establishment of his day, the time had come to retire to Mt. Minobu to cultivate his practice and those who were willing to follow him into something new.

I would add this caveat - we can not make decisions for each other about this. I can not say to you, "You have had enough, time to get moving." For I do not know how you are experiencing your corner of your Sangha. Nor can you say to me "You copped out. You should have hung in there" because you don't know where I am at or what the corner of any given Sangha was like for me.

Currently my offline Sangha - which is to say those I practice with on a regular basis - consists of a non-affiliate homeless women in the Tenderloin who has shown more dedication, sincerity, authenticity, and skill at practice and in picking up on subtle teachings than almost any other person I can name, some Independent Nichiren Buddhists in Marin Co. who have likewise shown steadfast dedication and a healthy support for each other, the San Jose Nichiren Shu Temple consisting of my sensei, the Ven. Ryusho Matsuda, and his family and our close knit group of members that feels like an extended family to me, and the Mt. Source Sangha of my friend Taigen Dan Leighton that consists of practitioners who have formally taken Buddhist vows and precepts in the Soto Zen lineage and others who have not. So my Sangha is very open, but also very intense, very practice oriented, multi-faceted, and very face-to-face.

Actually, I could also count some people and groups both Nichiren Shu and Independent around the world who I would count as my Sangha - though face to face encounters are few and far between. I don't want them to feel neglected, but my main point here is face-to-face Sangha and immediate community.

Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
Ryuei

Rev. Greg:

I take issue with your logic. So what if the doctrine is flawed. So what if the leaders are absurd and paranoid. So what; to practice in that "sangha" is the most important point! It reminds me of trying to take care of my two alcoholic parents in their final days. Yes, it was my family, yes it sucked, and yes, I had to do it, no matter how conflicted I was.

"Without community we are left to exist safely in our own comfort zones, unchallenged, safe and insulated."

That comment is an insult to every practitoner that has concluded, enough is enough! Speaking for myself, I do not exist in any sort of comfort zone. I create and meet challenge equal to anyone. I seek neither safety or insulation like some mystic refugee fleeing the dharma police. Your statement sounds like the kind of militant crap that has driven hundreds of thousands of members away from the SGI. At what point does someone finally "get it?" You chant, you develop your faith, you propagate the Law, and you live a life of compassion. It is true that the master-disciple has existed from the dawn of time - so has rebellion from heretical ideas and fanatical leaders. The human revolution is an apt term - now it's time for a spiritual revolution that strips away the barnacles of formality and heresy. All of Buddhism is my sangha.

Charles

My family is my "community" and I don't worry too much about the sangha issue these days. But I thought I'd share something relevant from a new book I just started reading, "Hooked! Buddhist Writings on Greed, Desire, and the Urge to Consume," edited by Stephanie Kaza. There is a great piece in it by Thubten Chodron called "Marketing the Dharma" that is right in line with Rev. Greg's blog. Thubten talks about how we approach the dharma in the same way we do everything else -- as consumers, shopping for the best. We look for perfection in our tradition, our teachers, our fellow members, and when we get disappointed (as we always will) we take off in search of the Next Best Thing. Maybe it's more as Greg suggested in a previous blog -- we join a group because friends introduced us and we like the people and the basic jist of it all. (On the other hand, I haven't been to an SGI meeting in quite some time because I have grown a bit disheartened by the dogma... although I have some good friends in the group and feel a bit conflicted for that reason alone.)

Andy,
The truth of SGI transcends the incorrectness of their doctrine, rises above the ridiculousness of their leadership and is simply more important than all the squabbles and bickering; it's the community. Practicing in a community is the most important point of SGI.
All other groups use the word "sangha" but without real community that word is merely empty rhetoric.
Without community we are left to exist safely in our own comfort zones, unchallenged, safe and insulated. This same principle is alive in martial arts as well and applies to those who say that trianing in a dojo is bullshit with it's bowing, "sensei this, sensei that" and all the other meaningless "respect" and customs. In fact it's all the bullshit that is what is the most important, the ability to learn as a student, teach as a teacher, and explore the master/diciple relationship as it has existed since the dawn of time.

Rev. Greg, Shidoshi

Andy,

I'm with you - my thoughts were the same as yours when I read the problem child metaphor.

Gabrielle

Greg, I understand and appreciate your delinquent child metaphor, but I'm not convinced it's really appropo. Your child is... your child. You gave birth (well, Nancy did), and raised him/her and have a connection beyond any other.

An organization is just that: a gathering of individuals with a specific purpose, and one voluntarily joins it, or leaves it.

I continue to wonder how folks with reason and logic in their favor can view what the SGI-USA does and remain supportive. It seems abundantly clear that your organization will not change these flawed views and adopt more reasonable and factually accurate ones. Why remain? What's in it for you?

Cheers!

Andy

Dear Jussi,

I wish you the best, although I'm sad to see you go as I valued your input. Please know that I read your opinions carefully and they enriched my perspective.
I still think you're a great representative for your sect, and I hope all Nichiren sects can soon co-exist in peace and respect.

Blessings,

Gabrielle

Jussi,I am sorry you won't be on this website anymore and I wish you all the best in life. Hope you'll continue reading and commenting here. Peace, blessings, and more...

Jussi... you can start your own blog like Greg did, then you can say whatever you want. I'm not saying this to be mean, just trying to give you an idea.

Good Luck - Danna

Thanks Nichieguy..You made it easy for me to decide what to do.
You guys clearly have no idea what it was about for me so it was time to bail out. You can call it what you like but there is no point in continuing is there?
For the most time I had a good time and I did enjoy writing my little views and thoughts.
Maybe I will find somewhere else to continue ..who knows.
But it seems the time is right to say my goodbyes here. That part of the playground is now gone. Call it what you like...
I will still read the blogs here from time to time and do feel grateful for all the nice comments through my time here.

Greg, You can delete me anytime you like...
Sorry it did not work out as planned.

Best wishes, Jussi.

I don't post here often, but had to say that Jussi's attitude, both in the comments and in his own blog, hasn't done much to gain my interest in NShoshu. The passive-aggressive whining, "Oh, our poor sect", and regular threats of "I'm quitting" remind me of grade-school antics. I get less the impression of someone who wants to share something he considers a wonderful Buddhist tradition and more of someone who just wants to complain. I try to appreciate all points of view and respect everyone's opinions, even when they conflict with my own, but Jussi...a little instrospection would do you good. I wish you the best.

Jussi:

I'm glad you stood up for yourself and stated your view. I (we) can all appreciate that. Glad I got your attention.

Charles

Charles wrote:
"If someone was attacking, disparaging, and slamming my traditions, I'd be like the lion king and take a bite out someone's ass. Isn't that what a true Nichiren follower is supposed to be?"

In my view no. Agression does not help. To be a true lion you use wisdom and show the truth trough your life and behaviour. it is not mere playing with words. It is about faith and how it manifests in our behaviour.
There is no need for me to behave in an agressive manner. And I do not believe the Daishonin would use vulgarities to express the correct way to behave.

"From what I've read, Nichiren didn't take any crap from his enemies, detractors, or weak disciples."

From my understanding Nichiren Daishonin did not strike out at people without thought even if he held strong views. He critizised when necessary - and yes was a bit of a fire brand - but I am me. I am not Nichiren Daishonin.
We all do our best working with our basic tendencies. Myself, I am not a fighter. This is not my fight in any case. I do not consider being involved in a fight even if the mob mentality at times I see as surfacing here does resemble a kindergarten. I note that while my person was attacked not one point I raised in my critique of what Graig posted was answered to. Instead only the aside in the end was attacked.
I feel sorry that you and others here view all this as a fight or some silly game. It is not and i don't need the attention. Nor am I crying. This here is nothing. There is real suffering in the world and it is that which need addressing more than whether I am a cry baby or not. It is because of this I point towards wars and animal abuse and so on in my blog more than actual doctrines.
The Daishonin speaks of having a courage of a lion it does not mean we need to go out hunting for trouble.
If you think arguing with people here is to portray or be a lion king I think we are not on the same page at all.
However any Nichiren Shoshu believer or Priest , anywhere in the world at this present time is certainly showing the courage of a lion by continuing with their faith and practise despite continuous harassment, spying, dirty tricks, persecution, contempt, hatred, lies and so on.
You know nothing about what I and other believers have had to endure in the past years as a result of having a presence on the internet or indeed out in the world. Please do not patronise me about lions. In having kept to my beliefs in face of serious acts of harassment and so on from certain quarters whether I stay on this board or not is hardly making much difference.
If I have not blogged enough about Nichiren Shoshu partly it is to protect people from making negative causes by attacking the doctrines because of my bringing them up.
The doctrines are what they are . They need no explaining from me. Why I remain convinced of Nichiren Shoshu's interpretations is that I have truly spent a lot of time especially in the past ten years of reading all the views I have been able to from other sources and then making comparisons and talking to our Priests.
Spending five minutes observing the conduct and life state of a priest or a long time believer I have learned more about the effects of this practise and that is more proof to me than thousands of articles which say to the contrary. The time I met and exchanged words with our High Priest taught me more about compassion than any article here or other blogs on the net.
I feel it begins from compassion and tolerance which I have not experienced or witnessed outside my sect's practise. That me and you both have the highest potential to become Buddhas is far more important than for me to argue with you. For me I find the only path to achieve that is through following the practise and the precepts of Nichiren Shoshu.
Ridiculing others views and beliefs is never the right way to procedd in my opinion. To belittle others is not something I would wish to be party to or a part of.
That is my take on it.

Best wishes, Jussi.

Jussi:

Like the others, I wish you would stay and write about Nichiren Shoshu. On the other hand, you've got to have some balls. If someone was attacking, disparaging, and slamming my traditions, I'd be like the lion king and take a bite out someone's ass. Isn't that what a true Nichiren follower is supposed to be? From what I've read, Nichiren didn't take any crap from his enemies, detractors, or weak disciples. You strike me as a very caring, sensitive, and compassionate person - but you must defend your doctrine if you believe it has been slandered, misinterpreted, or maligned. Unless you have the guts to do that, maybe you should take your ball, wipe the blood from your nose, and go home. Everyone wants you to stay, but we don't really need you if you cry everytime someone strikes a blow. Grow up, suck it up, or get out.

Charles

I wish to add something to my reply to you Jussi - and this is something that came to mind after reading your latest blog;

I don't agree with Nichiren Shoshu, but I absolutely do not want to dislike any individual who truly believes in any Buddhism. I want you here writing because you remind me that there are people behind the banner of NSS, not merely a power base. I suppose I could say the very same about SGI.

Rev. Greg

Jussi - I didn't really understand your reply to the section you quoted "INSTUCTIONS....". My point clearly was that SGI members who are clinging to a history that is unsupported should, as to not risk getting their theological asses kicked, follow those steps. I was being sarcastic, but not humurous.

I've already stated why I wish you would stay on the list, I want FWP to represent all views of Nichirenism. This means you could write a blog stating why I and Ryuei am wrong, or why Eugene is right about the history but wrong about SGI, or whatever. Taisekiji has done a very sorry job of defending itself in my opinion, adding more fuel to the fire that it's history was invented.

I've already made a personal determination not to jump on your blog and fight with you. If you say I'm full of shit, I'll let it be, but in that same spirit I'm not going to tailor my blogs to avoid hurting your feelings.

I'm not begging you anymore. Frankly Jussi you have written precious little about Nichiren Shoshu - just like our one mainstream SGI writer (Earthsong) ended up writing precious little about SGI.

Let me know when I can start trying to replace you. I'm tired of your whining and threatening. Maybe it's simply that you know you can't defend Nikken and Nichiren Shoshu. But thanks for your contributions to this point.

Rev. Greg

with all respect Lolo...some things are not "light" or to be laughed at or dismissed as "mystical magical lineage"......
Faith is a serious issue.
At least for me.

Best, Jussi.

May I suggest that everyone take a minute and just LIGHTEN UP?!

Greg; I have to say that reading what you wrote again further makes me see how futile my personal presence on this site is.
There is no respect shown to people who have made their own choices in life. Ridicule is easy but it really helps no-one and it is not going to bring anyone closer to enlightened way of living.
I accept this site is one of many where my sect is openly hated and accused of outrageous forgeries and so on.
However in searching for answers I would not ask someone to go and read mr Montgomery's book if indeed you are looking for some kind of impartial information. His book is mainly based on sourcing and support of the Nichiren Shu after all so what would you expect.I have that book and I read it with great interest yet it convinced me of very little. It was full of so many mistakes imho.
In any case I do not believe there are any true materials which would come from unbiased sources. You as many others here merely choose to believe the biased sources of your choice. As do I.
You wrote:
"INSTRUCTIONS TO SGI MEMBERS WHO STILL BELIEVE IN TAISEKIJI BUDDHISM

First, you shouldn’t be reading Fraught With Peril. Walk away. Don’t come back. I say this for your own good

Second, do not talk to other Buddhists, especially members of other Nichiren sects.

Third, read only SGI approved periodicals and books. Never, EVER buy or read Daniel Montgomery’s Fire in the Lotus (this is easy since it’s out of print)."

Well you get your fun where you can find it I guess but you are as much engaged in making up myths as anyone you are accusing of making them up too. Are you really believing that what anyone writes here is that important that someone would actually base life changing decisions on reading a blog?
Do you really believe minds are that easily "corrupted"?
I get that you are writing things in jest but it is not actually very humorous as underneath it shows to me that you view your fellow huimanbeings as so gullible that they woudl change their views purely after reading someone else's views on a blog?
Personally I do not think these blogs are that important.
At the end of the day what matters (in my opinion) is having a level of respect towards the readers and their feelings too.
While one has to remain true to one's own views it ought to be possible to express those views without causing huge offense (political matters do not count!).

Nit picking I know but you were not excommunicated in 1990 but in 1997. Only Mr Ikeda and Akiya were stripped of their membership status in 1991.Whatever your personal views you were regarded a member of Nichiren Shoshu up until November 1997. This of course applies to only those who had received Gojukai. Thoose SGI members who had not received Gojukai were never Nichiren Shsohu believers in the first place and thus could not have been excommunicated at any time.

Jussi.

PS. I will let you know in three weeks time if I shall continue blogging on this site at all. That is a personal date I have set to think things over until before making my decision whether being here serves any purpose for me personally.

Stitch #2 - Artificial "unity" of thought. Ryuei is prone to boasting of the appalling fact that member denominations of Nichiren Shu frequently disagree on matters of doctrine and yet manage to work together anyway. If we stopped enforcing artificial unity of thought, then anything could happen - local parishes springing up and handling their own money! Groups which choose to chant the "B" portion of the sutra at their meetings! Peole who read and discuss things they read in sources other than official Gakkai publications! Freedom! In other words...CHAOS!

This artificial unity is enforceable only on a membership with limited access to alternative ideas and reading materials - this is the main reason why the Gakkai will not discuss its attachment to Taiseki-ji with Ryuei (or anyone else on a public, level playing field. It would start the spectator membership down on the slippery slope of free enquiry.

Stitch #3 - "We're Number One" - the Gakkai has spent a lot of time and energy making itself as an organization synonymous with the Law as an absolute. Any activity done in the framework of the Gakkai is ipso facto something that is done in praise of the Lotus and must bring benefit. Therefore, any acknowledgement that other groups may also be praising the Law and acting as Bodhissatvas of the Earth would mean a tacit admission that there are other ways than Gakkai activities to gain benefit and advance kosen-rufu. Imagine all the strings that would come unravelled if people started thinking that way! Oh, well, gotta go, talk to you all later. Best, Byrd in LA

Ryuei asks what's wrong with being a New Religion?Nothing, from his point of view, but imagine the apoplexy at Gakkai Central at being lumped in together with Rissho Kosse Kai and Won! The fact that he has "great reapect" for all of them would only prove to a hardline Taiseki-ji Gakkai member how spiritually promiscuous and therefore untrustworthy someone like Ryuei is (nothing personal, Michael). I think his observations are good - i.e., the New Religions bring something to the table that traditional structures don't, and this wil be true of the Gakkai whether or not we caept the moniker of "New Religion". But the problems raised by this challenge are enormous.

The Gakkai's self-image (like that of your average, deluded individual human being) is woven together like a finely crafted garment. Drop one stitch and the whole thing could unravel. Important stitches which must be protected at all costs are:

1. The implied infallibility of the Three Eternal Mentors in matters of faith. If we are leaving Taiseki-ji behind, we have to replace it with something, and this something is the touchstone of the Three Eternal Mentors, all of whom actively and enthusiastically embraced Taiski-ji doctrine. If we eliminate their implied infallibity, then we are thrown back on the virtue listed in the prayer book, that they are "masters of propagation" - then raising the question, "propagation of what?"

Ack, I am running out of time. I will post the other stitches later. Bye for now,Byrd in LA

I think Byrd is exactly right - SGI does not want to be lumped in with the New Religions, and so is trying very hard to lay claim to the "traditional" legacy of Taisekiji.

But I think this is silly. There is no shame at all in being a New Religion. Rissho Kosei Kai is a New Religion, Won Buddhism is a New Religion, the Fo Guan Sha is one, and so is Nipponzan Myohoji for that matter - and I have immense respect for them. Frankly, though I chose to align myself with traditional Buddhism, I think the hope of a genuine Buddhist renewal in East Asia will be the result of the leadership of the New Religions - who are creating new paradigms of practice, lay involvement and even leadership, reinterpretation of doctrines so as to be more in line with 21st century science and values (not always a good thing - but better than being out of touch and simply remaining stuck in the middle ages), ecumenical dialogue with other world religions, and new ways of propagating and applying Buddhist teachings to everyday life. The traditional schools have a lot to gain by learning from and working with the New Religions - I am happy to report that Nichiren Shu has been doing this for some time. Many Nichiren based New Religions are welcomed at Mt. Minobu. In turn, the New Religions have much to learn from the scholarship and expertise found within the traditional schools.

So there is no shame in being a New Religion, and for SGI much to gain by dropping Taisekiji ideology and divisiveness. It would free them of the last vestiges of authoritarianism, dogmatism, and the constant drain of always having to put down every other lineage of Nichiren Buddhism.

Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
Ryuei

Byrd, that was a very insightful revalation. I'd never thought of it that way.

I'm impressed.

Rev. Greg

Hi again - now that I have read and digested this blog (and not just the first few sentences), I have an idea as to why we cling so stubbornly to Taisekiji myths. Hirahara mentions in his article that Nichiren Buddhism is general borken down into religions which have a real "heritage" or "lineage" of some sort, and, on the other hand, so-called "new religions". This appears in the first couple of paragraphs of his article. Most mainstream religios scholars (that I know of) have considered the Gakkai to be a "new religion" for sometime, and we have had to spend a lot of energy proving that no, we are not "new" or a modern nichirenist "inention", but rather have a true lineage. Taiseki-ji served this purpose for us.

Of course, in our insular universe, we are very eager to avoid giving any ground to the now-evil temple, and this is in fact part of their criticism of us - that we are not a bona fide Nichiren sect, but a new religion - the Ikeda sect. We therefore want not only to separate ourselves from the evil temple, but also to separate ourselves from the "new religions" -- hence our clutching at the evil temple and its doctrines and myths.

Too bad. Oh, well. I myself do not clutch and clobber at the same time (as we do with the evil temple) If I'm going to clobber, I just clobber wholeheartedly. Less stressful.

Best, Byrd in LA

Hi, Greg - I sent Michael the LB article in the mail because I wanted to know what his response would be. I thought it was interesting that the Gakkai was actually acknowledging the existence of NShu (and recognizing it as "the 'other' major Nichiren sect") - this at least cuts into the myth of the evil Temple takin gover Nichiren Buddhism. As he said in a response to my first comment on his blog, it does seem o be the first time that the Gakkai has acknowledged the existence of NShu by name. If you want to blame someon e for getting the article to him, you can blame me - at least my leadres who read tis site will know that I read my publications! Ha! best, Byrd in LA

I appreciate and sympathize with your practice in the SGI.

Long ago, when I was still welcome there, I likened The SGI to a great ship built inside of a bottle. The puzzle that seems to remain is one of how to free it from its constraints.

Rev Greg,
Thanks for responding to my comments. Your remark about being a Ninja reminded me that I still don't know what a Ninja is (refer back to my first blog.) But the other night, I was reading a book about "Spies" to my youngest daughter. On page ten it says, "The deadliest killers of all were the 12th-century Japanese spies known as Ninja "invisible men." Dressed in black, they crept slowly into the houses to poison or stab their poor, unsuspecting victims. It was said that no guard could stop a Ninja attack. One enterprising Ninja even hid in a small sewer waiting for his victim. When his victim sat on the toilet above, the Ninja killed him with a spear from below!" The accompanying illustration shows a Ninja crouching under a building with a spear aimed up at a hole in the floor that is apparently used as a toilet, and a person standing above the whole with undergarments around his feet, as if he's getting ready to sit down!!! (This is a DK Reader for young kids!!!) I guess the "bottomline" (no pun intended) is that when you're in Ninja territory, you better watch your rear....

Queen Lolo;

Thanks for your wonderful comments. I cannot answer your question simply, or easily - perhaps your answer will be in the form of my next entry.

Life is very complex. I am an SGI member and a Nichiren Buddhist, and I am also a non-denominational minister. In addition to these I am also a "ninja". None of these parts of my life seem to mix well with each other.

More often than not I write ironically, sarcastically and humorously, however all these things are very real and deadly serious, more so than I am willing to elaborate on over the internet. There is a reason I share this.

I will provide you an analogy, but please apply only the principle, not the values;

My children misbehave, sometimes to the extreme. I always love them. No matter how much they yell at me and say they hate me and I'm a horrible Father (sound familiar?) this has no bearing on my love and devotion to them. One could say "by loving them you condone their behavior" but of course this is not true....

TenChiJin,

Rev. Greg

Rev. Greg, I have a question. In light of all this, I wonder why you continue as an SGI member? I ask this without judgement and not in any challenging manner, as I, too, joined the SGI and have never "formally" left although I haven't been to a meeting in ages... I just wonder how any of us can condone an organization that doesn't seem to practice what they preach? I know this is an old issue and maybe others are tired of discussing (and I'm not sure I even want to go there myself) but it's just so mindboggling I keep thinking I am missing something. I know there are two sides to every story (or three sides, as my husband likes to say: "His, hers, and the truth")and I can't help believe I am missing some valuable bit of information that could make sense of all this.

Rev:

Only the word "written" was a typo - I guess my humor leaves something to be desired. "Let the truth be told." Every SGI-USA member should read this post. It's a shame that pro-con letters to the editor aren't in the publications because there needs to be some rebuttal like yours.

Great job.

Charles

Hi Rev. Greg,
Wow. I was trying to be nice in my response to Eugene, but I am glad that there are others who find this thing outrageous and unacceptable.
BTW, I don't subscribe to or read Living Buddhism. The article was sent to me by someone who wanted my comments on it. I assured them that it was probably not anything I had not seen before, and unfortunately I was right.

Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
Ryuei

Love love love this blog. Here is my comment, along the same lines as what I wrote in response to Rev. Rueyi's blog on this subject: If the SGI promotes the idea that our external environment is a reflection of our internal reality, or rather if our outer world is an effect of our personal causes (and this is what I heard from the SGI)... if it is our responsibility to promote peace and happiness in the world... then this "us against them" and "fight the enemy" attitude is completely contradictory to everything I have heard at every meeting I have attended. I am downright confused. Why would the SGI waste a single second of precious life energy on this? It's like a pacifist shooting bullets for peace.

Thank you Charles. I think you didn't get a chance to proof-read your reply. Let me know what you meant to say and I'll correct it...

Rev. Greg

Rev. Greg:

This is the best blog you've ever writte. "Let the truff me toll."

Charles