Reverend Greg

Greg wrote:

"I apologize for the fact that often I can't write or respond without coming off like an asshole, I am merely trying to communicate honestly how I realy feel."

No need to apologize, Greg. You are not only communicating honestly how you feel, you are demonstrating honestly how you are.

Love it or leave it!

Cheers!

Andy

As a ninja cultie extraordinaire, you know shit damn more about cults than you think. In fact, you may be the ultimate cultie. Reminds me about when I was into CDs. Music cultie, not cross-dressing. but, that's another cult.

Spent over 5k a month for latest and had to have the top-end analog audiophile system to boot. Wife, kids, dog, didn't matter. The 'sound' came first.

Think about it! There is no 12 step plan or any of that shit. It's just you and your lonesome self. Can you dig it. that's what it's all about. You waking up in the morning and facing your ugly self, again. When you can do this as positively as your little life-condition will allow, you're talking HR. and it ain't no picnic.

Lisa, Charles, and everyone in between are doing just that. Exult in the fact if you have taken a teeny little step today and applaud their efforts that force you to challenge yourself.

Ciao dude. And may the force you think exists always be with you cause it will, if you let it.

Wel well Lisa, we may have found common ground through all of this;

"Greg, regardless of what you think of me and my motives, the facts remain: SGI has vast wealth for which they are unaccountable. SGI is unaccountable even to its own members for its policies and activities."

I agree - totally.

"SGI distorts Nichiren Buddhism to help justify its wealth-and-political-power campaigns."

I'm not prepared to agree totally with this, but I know that SGI is sticking to it's Nichiren Shoshu guns, something I find very disappointing. I will state that I'm also not prepared to disagree with this particular statement either.

"SGI lies -- they even lied in their response to the Forbes article, claiming that they *do* provide financial disclosure when of course they don't."

I've read the official response very poorly, scanned it really. I have never seen financial accounting of any form - ever.

As for the rest, I'm addressing them now. As far as my membership data - let's be careful. My leadership gets numbers, the data stays with me. How and when it will be passed down to some other district chief is a serious question for later on. I'm not playing Scieno games, not in this lifetime. The membership data stays at home.

Finally you state "But, sorry, that won't make the facts go away".

I agree, in fact I agree with this statement and the spirit in which you made it, more than anything you've written so far. Reality is reality and no cult can change reality no matter how much it wishes it could. Cults can change the subjective reality or perception thereof of the individuals, but the world is the world.

We will all have to do human revolution sooner or later, you - I , even Tariq.

Rev. Greg, Shidoshi

Greg, regardless of what you think of me and my motives, the facts remain: SGI has vast wealth for which they are unaccountable. SGI is unaccountable even to its own members for its policies and activities. SGI distorts Nichiren Buddhism to help justify its wealth-and-political-power campaigns. SGI lies -- they even lied in their response to the Forbes article, claiming that they *do* provide financial disclosure when of course they don't.

These are the facts, Greg. You say that you need not address them -- apparently you need only cast aspersions on my credibility to feel safe and secure with your devotion to SGI (and merrily go off to collect membership data for your leaders.)

But, sorry, that won't make the facts go away.

Lisa Jones

"So are you saying that we shouldn't worry about cults *until* there are homicides? Just wondering."

No no, I wouldn't say that at all. Dennis' experience didn't involve a homocide, directly, though the CoS convinced local law enforcement to raid his home and violate his constitutional rights.

You picked that one thing out, probably because it was among the worst, but there is so much more including severe brainwashing, false imprisonment and so forth, not to mention the thousands upon thousands of dollars Scientologists spend on their auditing and courses, or the "billion year contracts" they sign.

Between you and I Lisa, what *I* am trying to say is that I don't feel I can trust your motives any more than I would trust the motives of a paid SGI staffer. The only thing worse than a cultie is an ex-cultie, and the only thing worse than THAT is a cultie on the payroll. You are, or were all of those things at one time.

After reading your replies to Brian and I, I would say to you - make up your mind what you wish to accomplish. Do you want to convince us or just tear us down?

There's just too much anger is what you write Lisa to make you a reliable anti-cult resource or even believable. You're just the other extreme end of the spectrum. Maybe you are frusterated that as an SGI critic you are being ignored, which is what SGI does to it's critics. Maybe SGI slighted you in some way and you're just resentful of being pushed out of the upper/inner cult. Like you said, I really don't know you.

Maybe, when all is said and done, you NEED me and others to believe as you do so you don't end up feeling like you were just out-in-out duped into being a cultie. I mean, if I and others practice in SGI without being culties, what went wrong with you?

I apologize for the fact that often I can't write or respond without coming off like an asshole, I am merely trying to communicate honestly how I realy feel.

Rev. Greg

Greg, your point seems to be that a cult is only a cult if people die because of it. Is that what you're saying? One of the points that Deborah Layton (Jonestown survivor) makes in her book is that there are warning signs of cultishness *before* people die. The Peoples Temple was the toast of many in San Francisco...but it slid downward into total madness and mass killing. So are you saying that we shouldn't worry about cults *until* there are homicides? Just wondering.

Lisa