I notice many of you ask if SGI still promotes chanting for stuff. I haven't noticed that lately, but then again, I am not in the for front of introducing people to the SGI. I am sure it would come up at an introduction meeting, probably from the audience. I don't think it is a bad idea to chant for something tangible when you start this practice. I believe we need to see some benefits or results at the beginning. I didn't chant for anything for a long time and surprise, not much changed. But then I really need to accomplish something or make something happen, chanted about it and noticed results.
I drive a 10 year old vehicle. It hurts my hips, hands and wrists when I drive... and I drive alot. It also has cost me over $1400 in the last couple of months. So I chant to be in the right place at the right time to acquire a vehicle. In my current situation, I can't just go buy a car. I do not expect a vehicle to materialize in my driveway. That is not my "prayer." No magical thinking here. But I do need another vehicle. So am I wrong to chant about it?
I chant for other stuff, too. Some goals I will have to save up to accomplish. Others will just take time and/or effort. I also chant for the health and happiness of my family, friends and acquaintances. My 13 year old daughter is going to the movies today with a 16 year old boy. She is very trustworthy - she didn't hide it from me and I am not worried. She told me just before I left this morning, so no time to chant about it, but since I have been chanting for her happiness and health for all these years, I have "faith" in her.
So those who think it is wrong to chant for "stuff" - what so you chant about?
I really think people need to ask themselves what Buddhism is really about. Is it just a self-help technique? In that case, why not just go with some more secular program that doesn't require getting involved in some religion from another culture that's seemingly had its day. If it's just a magical form of getting what you want - the Secret apparently works just as well - and again it's more do it yourself and you don't need to get involved in Asian religious organizations (or corporations). If it's just a fellowship of likeminded people who will support us in our vague spiritual aspirations - I think most of us would find a Unitarian Universalist Church to be a friendly place, easier to find, more in keeping with our culture and without all the Asian baggage and abstruse Buddhist jargon.
I think that for all the things that most people look for in Nichiren Buddhism they waste their time and put themselves through a lot of unecessary anguish and inconvenience trying to deal with Buddhism (which they aren't really interested in - only what it will supposedly give them) and Asian organizations with all the cultural and linguistic alienation that entails. Is it really worth putting yourself through all that when you could just use the Secret or read the Power of Now or join the UU or perhaps some pagan or New Age group, or even a Christian Church that matches your social agenda and promises prosperity through prayer?
Now for my part, I am a Japanophile, so the whole Asian organization angle doesn't bother me. Especially since the Japanese ministers in Nichiren Shu keep telling me - We don't know how to make American Buddhism that job is for you. So they aren't trying to impose some dysfunctional model from another culture on me (at least not in San Francisco where I have a free hand) and in fact they have supported me, trained me, and given me access to resources to go as deeply into the teachings of Nichiren as I could wish.
Yes when I was younger I was attracted to the seemingly exotic mysticism of the East and I also wanted to tap into the metaphysical underpinnings of the universe and magically manipulate things to my advantage - or at least get the powers that be on my side. Crass, superstitious, and stupid. If I could go back in time I'd give myself a boot to the head and tell myself to please take the Dharma a little more seriously and stop being such a wuss playing make-believe games with life (save that for RPGs with friends).
Now my future self may want to come back and boot me in the head right now, but at any rate, I now believe heartily that what Buddha Dharma is authentically about is facilitating the process of human maturity on many levels but most particularly in fostering and nurturing the selfless compassion that researchers in human development like Kohlberg and Piaget have found at the top of their charts (though a rare achievement). Probably those rare selflessly compassionate human beings would not boot anyone in the head - but I digress...
Anyway, I believe this kind of maturity (taking in the moral, emotional, interrelational, and intellectual) is what all human beings strive for. I think that in terms of interdependence all reality strives to express it - at least in and through us. I also believe that Buddhism is the most wonderful and amazing wisdom tradition that can help facilitate this - a 2,500 year old tradition that was the produce of one of the oldest and most sophisticated cosmopolitan and urbanizing civilizations on this planet for its time (ancient India) and then had the further good fortune of coming to its own maturity through its history in another great, ancient, and sophisticated cosmopolitan and urbanizing culture (China) which already had a very advanced humanistic tradition in Confucianism and meditative arts and methods (in Taoism). I really believe that Western psychology is only now catching up to Abhidharma, and Western neuroscience is now confirming from the objective physiological angle the real benefits of Buddhist meditative disciplines. I really believe that the gifts of Buddhism to this planet earth are unsurpassed.
I also believe that these gifts are squandered by those who reduce it to a personality cult, or a prayer prosperity cult, or an escapist system of magical ceremonies or a Buddhist version of the salvation on the cheap rebirth in paradise after death through a glib faith.
But what about chanting for "stuff"? I don't actually discourage it at Faithful Fools. What I tell people is that they should bring all fo their concerns and issues, all of themselves, into the practice. Sure, chant about all that. Get it off your chest. Sure, take some time to prioritize, make goals, send out thoughts of loving-kindness and even healing to all those in need of it (including yourself), self-reflect, and make vows and aspirations. Buddhism has always made room for that - and it needs to because we need to process this stuff. But if it doesn't go beyond that then its not Buddha Dharma. It might as well be a Christian or New Age prosperity cult, or (as Nichiren puts it repeatedly in the gosho when he denounces Shingon) the miracles of the non-Buddhist Brahmans.
When one chants one should realize that to awaken to the Wonderful Dharma (i.e. the reality principle in all its gratuitous and interdependent wonder) is the greatest benefit you could ever have, beyond what you can imagine if you really realized its full import. You can't get or have or attain this benefit. It comes of itself when you get out of the way. You get out of the way through just abiding in the practice - letting go of all hopes, fears, anxieties, and all the other things you may have been chanting about previously (say for the first few minutes of sitting down to chant). You tranquilty abide in the practice and then realize what the practice itself is expressing to you about the true nature of your life, of life itself. That is why the true benefit of practice is not something to have or get or attain - it is not a thing that you don't have. It is the suchness of life just as it is.
All of these words are in a sense a waste of time. One either abides in the Wonderful Dharma or abides in the Wonderful Dharma unknowingly. But it is always trying to make itself known - even to those with no explicit or self-conscious Buddhist practice. Buddhism certainly helps.
Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
Ryuei
Nancy/Ryuei,
I like what both of you had to say. I would say that this "chanting for stuff" thing is actually quite central to any interaction with the Dharma. One can go very deep into these matters of explaining why or one can just summarize it. I think these two links do a better job than I could at summzarizing why one might chant for "stuff", both material and non-material:
http://www.welt.de/international/article4133061/Dalai-Lama-I-am-a-supporter-of-globalization.html
http://www.sgi.org/desires.html
namaste
Posted by: cl at July 29, 2009 10:25 AMI think unconditional compassion is my "goal". At least that's what I aim toward. I'd rather ere on the side of compassion in most situations. (Odd, but some folks think compassion is weak.)
As I study the Lotus Sutra I keep hearing the message that all beings suffer,want to end their suffering and are to be respected...same lesson told in many ways.
There are stages and lessons and traps all along the way. I think keeping others' happiness in mind while chanting is helpful, especially if they are causing us problems.
That's the one thing I do
chant "about" these days, to understand, not judge but act with compassion even to people who may cause me problems. I chant to understand my own part in our relationship. In that sense they're my teachers. Patty
>>> So those who think it is wrong to chant for "stuff" - what so you chant about?
I do not think it wrong to chant for stuff. It may or not be Buddhism; it might depend on what we are chanting for. Chanting to sate sense desires and cultivating enmity are sure fire ways to not get anything of value out of practicing Buddhism.
Sometimes; I might have some target in mind. If I am feeling pixxy; I might do loving kindness cultivation. If my brain is foggy; I do concentration meditation. If I am sick, I chant to channel Medicine King and heal myself. I often do meditative visualizations; which is more of a style that can be applied to kindness / compassion cultivation, concentration, or insight. Visualizations can be focused or open ended and yield fascinating results.
Other things I do include practicing the sitting postures and hand mudras. I have also developed several ways to practice the four frameworks of mindfulness while chanting daimoku and visualizing the Gohonzon. I also apply mindfulness techniques while going about my daily business.
There are also times when I just chant to chant. It is like eating to eat, watching TV to watch TV, going for a walk just to walk, or soaking in a hot tub just to soak. It is a time to get away from worrying about finishing a report, organizing a fund raiser, paying bills, or whatever else needs to be done. Those things will still be there after I finish chanting.
Posted by: robin at July 31, 2009 07:27 AMWhen I first joined SGI, I must say that the whole idea of chanting for "stuff" was talked about as a quick "proof of benefit." Like many other "promises" of faith - it was misunderstood to mean that you could chant for a new job, new clothes and a BMW.. this turned me off at first, and although I soon broke off formal ties with SGI it was not because of this practice because most people understood that if these things did "appear" after chanting for them, it was because it was the result of a determined behavior or attitude that caused the reality. In other words, I heard a guy say that he was chanting for a new job - however, as his determination increased - so did his diligence in sending out resumes and arranging interviews. People who chanted for their health or recovery - also were diligent about changing their diet and life habits. The chanting in this case, appeared to be a catalyst to action - a focus on the root of determination.
I also chant about situations that I'd like to occur, or for prosperity, and although I have to be honest and say that this sounds shallow - it really comes down to an understanding that the universe is not really divided into physical and spiritual, me and others, it is really one reality. As I chant about transformation, I see it as trusting that positive actions will bring positive results. The thoughts that come to mind as I chant often turn into the inspiration that I need in order to be more diligent at work or to be more caring about a situation.
I think the important thing is to be totally honest with yourself about your needs and the needs of others when you come before the Gohonzon - this means chanting about everything that concerns you - the Gohonzon often acts as a mirror that brings clarity on the situation, so however you want to look at it. Chanting does produce results - both physically and spiritually - they all come from inner transformation.
Posted by: Martin Davis at August 1, 2009 12:07 PMNancy,
I guess my first question is whom decides what is right or wrong for self and others. I belive people chant for what they believe will bring about their own happiness. True happiness as asociated with the Womnderful Law; myoho; is quite different than transient happiness, stuff.
Chanting for stuff actuall is a great cause, because reciting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo is a great cause in and of itself, irrespective of what you are chanting for, gaining patience, and other positive attributes of life are benefits not expected from the outcome when chanting for stuff starts.
I guess I feel anyone that believes they know what and how people should chant might want to reflect on their own understanding of faith before questioning others acts of faith.
I chant to be happy, no matter what. I get what I need when I need it and that comes from my hard work and efforts, as well as my faith in Nam-myoho-renge-kyo and myself.
Patrick
Posted by: Patrick at August 3, 2009 07:27 AM"I was chanting for a Fendi and all I got was this lousy Gucci!"
But what eventually came of it's own accord was this:
"Commonsense is the realised sense of proportion."
Mohandas Gandhi
When first introduced to chanting and all during my SGI experience, chanting for "things" has been the norm, the guidance, and the promise. I still remember old SGI W.D. member, "Hoss," a person known well to all of us Chicago kaikan rats, telling a new shakubuku that she could chant for, "sex, drugs, and money," while being secretly filmed by Channel 2 (CBS) invesitgative reporter, Pam Zeckman.
The SGI had pissed off the wrong cowboy, Frank Ross, the former Chicago Bureau Chief of the World Tribune. Good old Frank - a mighty good writer and no one to screw with, called CBS News and told them of the SGI's indoctrination process and they, having had numerous complaintsover the years, sent in a Zeckman with what I refer to as the hidden KU CAM. Hoss told this shakubuku things many of us have told prospective members who have endless desires but don't know how to get what they need.
The expose came out, the SGI was blindsided and extremely embarassed, Hoss was devasstated, and Frank Ross, as far as I know, was formally expelled or excommunicated from the SGI.
That beings me to my point. The universe is non-judgmental and will respond to any intention we have whether its money, drugs, sex, or parking spaces. Where the SGI and oh so many others are way behind the curve is understanding the dynamics, processes, science, and actual data on targeeted and non-specific prayer.
Here it is, yet again, in a nutshell:
Those who have scientifically studied prayer, like Spindrift, or as found in various university studies have concluded this:
Targeted prayer is not as effective as non-specific prayer.
Targeted prayer can and does hit the mark, but not as often or as efficiently as non-specific prayer.
For example, you need money for the power bill and there doesn't seem to be any way to get more money. The person who uses targeted prayer, without sspecifically caring how that money is obtained, may 1.) fail to obtain the money 2.) receive the money through some windfall that could be anything to an unexpected windfall or some stranger dropping $100 in a parking lot or Uncle Eddie dying and leaving you a few bucks.
Non-specific prayer for money would amount to facing the Gohonzon with the intention to pay the bill, trusting the universe to repsond, but without obsessing or attachment to a specific outcome.
The result is statistically more likely to occur than with the targeted approach, without the development of unwanted complications like Uncle Eddie cashing it in or some person losing their money so you could have your petty desire fulfilled. This whole field of inquiry and the science surrounding are available to anyone who wants to research it for themselves.
The universe does not make value judgments and regardsa prayer for a boyfornd with as much attention as it would for a spoonful of heroin.
As a side note, if anyone knows how to find or get in touch with Frank Ross, he would be a fabulous writer for FWP. Let's see if we can track him down. He's no Bruce Maltz, but Frank is an amazing person in his own right.
So, go ahead and chant for things, it's okay. I just wanted to remind you that there are other ways of chanting to get what you want and need.
Charles
Posted by: Charles at August 4, 2009 01:08 PMFrom everything I've read about double blind prayer studies, targeted prayer leads to nothing. I agree with Charles on that.
There is an ancient saying, Judaic perhaps; if prayer worked, they would pay people to do it. That's much like the Catholic practice of buying an indulgence from the church for a full or partial (depending on the cost) remission and expiation of a specific sin. That's targeted too.
But wait! There is prayer-helpers.com! Too busy to pray for yourself? For $9.99 you can get a Christian ( it's a Christian site, so I'm guess they aren't going to pray to Allah or chant NMRK) to do it for you.
WHY DIDN'T I THINK OF THAT?!
'HI, I'M JOE ISUZU. FOR ONLY $9.99 I'LL PRAY THAT YOU'LL GET EVERYTHING YOU DESERVE (and that your check clears) YOU HAVE MY WORD ON IT!
But check it out:
Accepting Christian Prayer Requests
Our team of strong Christian Prayer Helpers is standing ready and waiting to take your prayer requests. Each prayer request is first personally reviewed by our staff then forwarded to the appropriate Christian Prayer Helper. The designated Christian Prayer Helper will then intercede directly on your behalf before God. We obviously do not guarantee that your prayer request will be answered, but we do guarantee that our Prayer Helper will pray hard directly for your request. When our Prayer Helper has finished praying over your request, he or she will send you a personal email to confirm that your prayer was offered up to Jesus. All of our Prayer Helpers are carefully chosen to ensure that each is recognized to be a solid Christian of good character. Each Prayer Helper is required to sign a document declaring that they are Christians, and we talk to our Prayer Helpers regularly about their individual relationships with Jesus Christ. For more information on how our Prayer Helpers offer up prayer requests, please feel free to contact us.
All types of prayer listed here: http://prayer-helpers.com/collections/all
Hey, they have to sign a contract, like the SGI-USA leadership, to declare that they are indeed a Christian of good character. How about them apples!