I was just trying to catch up on some reading on my email. Suddenly I saw messages that I didn't know I was getting, involving a kind of argument about the morality of Buddhists "supporting" soldiers. I thought this issue had been settled, but here it was being hotly debated. One camp insisting that it was immoral to provide any sort of moral support to soldiers -- because war is immoral. The other camp defending the efforts to support soldiers morally. The thread finished nicely. Nobody stomped out of the "room" in flames, but it set me thinking. There is a link between causality and principle, virtue and samsara, and even people in "evil professions" can do good, cannot always avoid doing evil, but need to behave in such a way that they do good. Nichiren talked about this. That gives us some moral hints.
With Nichirenism one can go to Nichiren on this subject. Nichiren wrote in a letter to Shijo Kingo (Sword of Good and Evil) about how he was an evil man because he was a retainer to a warrior and thus a warrior himself. And Nichiren explained that warriors are like a sword. The sword can be used for good or evil. Nichiren said as much about his friend Shijo Kingo, who might have died for his secular master had his life called him to that fate.
To cut off moral support to the persons involved in evil simply because one thinks that the country is doing something evil is not going to address the evil being done because the soldiers don't individually set the strategy. They can moderate evil strategies (for example refusing to torture prisoners), but they cannot by themselves stop wars.
Therefore they are like a sword. Used for ceremonial purposes it accomplishes good. Retooled into a plowshare it can produce food and save lives. But it is simply a tool, and soldiers are simply people working for the military and thus in a profession that does evil things. But they are still people. We should not despise anyone.
Moreover, whatever effects the US attempt at occupying Iraq and "democratizing it" may have been, this is not the failure or the fault of the soldiers who serve the country. They tried to accomplish good things and for the most part were not strategically culpable in these failures. To criticize groups like the Gakkai for providing outreach to US soldiers is a bit unfair. One can criticize any political decisions of any group, but providing outreach to people in uniform is something different. They deserve respect for serving their country.
In a sense this failure in Iraq may be our collective failure as a society. How can any nation force another to conform to its vision?
On the other hand, those involved in the military, the police, and similar efforts need to be cognisant of Buddhist theory and practice, and of the power of their acts to cause unintended side-effects and so make strong efforts to link their efforts to moral purpose, to minimize their use of violence, and to avoid harming innocents. Samurai didn't chuse their professions. Modern soldiers and people don't have that excuse.
(started 6/17/2007 finished 6/30/2007)
Chris
Posted by cholte at June 30, 2007 11:09 PMI suppose if one figured that American interests were a good thing in general apart from current fiasco's that would be one thing. I consider the United States Empire to be evil away and apart from the evil of militarism itself. So even by your reasoning those under orders of the American military are doing evil things for evil reasons. Seperating the sin from the sinner is an old principle, but there is no forgiveness for one who continues in sin and that principle is just as old. Though of course there is a great deal of difference between the individual and the institution. If the world was ruled by justice rather than by might malking right no one would dare to do these things. To me it is simple, the right and the wrong of it, you support the individual while denouncing the activity. If you fail to denounce the activity then you by default condone it, and become the enemy of humanity.
Posted by: Clown Hidden at July 1, 2007 10:03 PMIt seems to me to ascribe either good or evil to a job instead of the individual is implied, regarding soldiers, police,etc.
Individual responsibilities seem to ring most strongly with regards to Nichiren Daishonin's teachings and practice or revealing the "true entity of life."
I believe Nichiren says, "Both good and evil spring forth from the same mind."
Observing evil within one's own mind is probably better than trying to observe evil within someone else's mind. "Seeking this Gohonzon outside oneself"
Change or human revolution occurs as a desire of the individual and not from other's desire for that person to change; soldier, police, fire, etc..
Posted by: Patrick at July 3, 2007 05:01 PMNever the less evil is commited by people and to deny that in favor of self reflection may well be considered sticking one's head in the sand. Which is fine in the solipisist universe. "What I can't see doesn't hurt me.", sure you can believe that but in my opinion you are wrong.
Posted by: clown hidden at July 5, 2007 12:59 PMClown,
Nichiren's entire practice of the Mystic law is about self reflection. The SGI calls the ptocess human revolution.
I believe it was the SGI that said e revolution of one person can change the destiny of humanity.
I think self-reflectipon lies at the heart of a correct Nichiren Buddhist practice of embracing the Mystic Law of Nam myoho Renge Kyo; the law of life itself.
I think the Rissho Onkoku Ron speaks abpout these issues of evil and responsibility. It is the leadership; the Soverign; at fault for the countries actions and not the citizen soldier.
Two issues here Karma f the people and region and individual responsibility, I think.
Soldiers are no different than a samurai. Shijo Kingo for example.
Shijo Kingo was not considered evil even though he was a samurai for his entire career; professional soldier by today's stanbdards.
Shijo Kingo was one of Nichiren's most devout disciples. It seems Nichiren does not agree with you.
Posted by: Patrick at July 5, 2007 07:03 PMIf you wish to use Nichiren's buddhism to say that one should judge no one but yourself, I would have to say you are a fool. And if Nichiren meant that himself then he is a fool as well. His authority cewrtainly does not extend to adopting any asinine thing he said. And to pretend thatg there are not people doing bad who should be judged is asinine, as I'm sure a mere moments reflection will show. Do you really want to do away with police,judges and courts in favor of navel gazing? If you do I think you arte a fool.
Posted by: clown hidden at July 6, 2007 06:40 PMClownHidden,
Who decides who judges whom? YOU perhaps!
Who decided you are the holder of correct understanding of others lives to judge what is of proper merit and what is not of proper merit?
You have decided which are noble professions and you have decided which are evil professions. Such an arrogant understanding of others, without any actual proof, documentary proof or theoretical proof to substantiate your position.
I believe Nichiren says, to live one day with honor is worth much more than to live a life time praised by fools.
Nichiren was not a person of authority, but a person of compassion.
No one is pretending about others actions. Pointing out others shortcommings is not the path to your happiness of the happiness of others. Just my observation.
Your argument goes from evil people to no judicial systems. I can not follow your thinking.
Individual responsibilities does not remove social responsibilities or a judicial system from the world. Buddhism is common sense.
Calling names is not mostly rude and disrespectful in my opinion.
Of course name calling is not much different than other forms of disrecpect towards others, but name calling should not be confused with dialogue.
Posted by: Patrick at July 9, 2007 11:16 AMIf you can't see the foolishness of absolute non-judgement that's not my fault. Of course I say so and not only I say so. In reality everyone says so and those who don't are lying. Calling murderers what they are is not wrong and saying that it is is utter foolishness. If the shoe fits wear it. I don't feel bad for pointing that out either. I can't even imagine that you are serious to say it is disrespectful to speak the truth. Someone murders someone and you suggest we turn our heads and pretend otherwise to be non-judgemental and polite. Foolish is a mild term.
Posted by: clown hidden at July 10, 2007 05:07 PMClown,
Ever hear of the draft? My darft number was 187. What ws your draft number?
Many American's were drafted into the military against their will. Today that condition does not exist. Those men were not eveil because they were required by law to enter the military.
Have you ever served your country in the military?
Have you ever served in any capacity of working for others, or just judging the actions of others?
Are you going to judge all those Vietnam Veterans and call of them evil for being American's and following the law, and not running away to Canada and hide from the duty?
You say everyone says so. I am always reluctant of anyone that says "everyone" is doing anything. That is usually not the case. Foir example. children usually state everyone else is doing it why not me.
What you should feel bad about is calling people names. I suppose in your neighborhood you can name call anyone and that is not evil. That is Good.
You make up your rules as you go along. Perhaps a real framework for your philosphy is required.
BTW, I currently work for the Marine Corps. I also fought in Vietnam in the Marine Corps from 1972-1976, and you call me evil, because of the job I was given and not for my actions. You appear to be just judging soldiers as an entity and not their merits as individuals.
No one suggested turning their head against murder. You are making up your argument to fit your own argument.
I believe soldiers are being held accountable for murder on several occasions during the Iraqi War alone, as well as Vietnam.
you suggested soldiers are all evil by their job. I say each person including you can be evil based on your actions alone, and not your job title or position.
Calling people names to fit your fancy can be called evil. You are not correcting incorrect views, just name calling in the name of something else. I can call people stupid, foolish, etc, but it serves no purpose except to make me feel better and them feel worse. Is it the same for you?
At least Nichiren expressed a framework for his philosophy, you have not, just judgementalism, name calling, and opinions so far.
I belive Nichiren says, when you chant nam myoho renge kyo with the understanding that your life and all life is no more than Myoho Renge Kyo, you are one of Nichiren's disciples. Ichinen Sanzen.
Posted by: Patrick at July 10, 2007 07:00 PMYou know if not judging was a tenable position for you. You would not judge me or even bother with this issue you would "just chant". Yes I have done a lot of charity work in my life. I never "served" in the military, but I was in the U.S. Army. The job of soldiers is evil under the best of circumstances. Serving in the U.S. military is worse than that because they are always on the offensive. They have done nothing to protect the U.S. during my lifetime but only to protect "U.S. interests". If you really are a U.S. marine you preform evil actions any time you are told to. That's your choice and you're free to make it. You work for evil, you are implicated in evil, and if you continue, judging you by your actions you are evil. Whether you choose to admit it or not. If you can't understand that there are other words as well. If you want to say that everyone doesn't make judgements maybe you can give an example, I don't think it's possible to even sustain life without making judgements. To believe absolutely in being non-judgemental is ridiculous. Certainly you don't do it, nor do I, who do you think does? Beyond any possible doubt Nichiren didn't. It seems to me you don't like what I'm saying and having no real argument you have come up with this. Undoubtably the better choice during the American War in Vietnam would have been to resist and go to jail, or to leave the country. At least eventually some who went to the war began killing their own superiors helping to bring an end to the war. AQ war that was stupid and over nothing. Which we lost with no great detrimental effect. The world didn't go communist, we're stll speaking English not Chinese or Russian. About all we really achieved there was the destabilization of surrounding countries leading to more destruction and bloodshed. God Bless America. Semper Fi.
Posted by: clown hidden at July 11, 2007 11:21 AMPhillip wrote.."You would not judge me or even bother with this issue you would "just chant"
Phillip, making conditions for others to follow. Magic chanting does no good for anyone. Just chant is not any advice for one to give another when they disagree with you. Perhaps you might consider the advice for yourself.
Phillip wrote.."I never "served" in the military, but I was in the U.S. Army."
Phillip, either you served in the Army or not. If you worked as a civilian in the Army you are as guilty as all the other civilians you call evil.
Phillip you should read the post before responding to it. I served in the Marine Corps during the Vietnam War; which you say I should have run from.
I know you do not understand the draft, or else you would not offer the advice you did. Advising on issues you have no experience or prior knowledge is a form of arrogance.
Phillip wrote.." Serving in the U.S. military is worse than that because they are always on the offensive. They have done nothing to protect the U.S. during my lifetime but only to protect "U.S. interests". If you really are a U.S. marine you preform evil actions any time you are told to."
Phillip, because ypou have not observed any positivity from the Military does not mean none exists; the analogy of a tree falling in the woods and the ability of others to hear it if falls comes to mind here.
I design malls, gymnasiums, gas stations, parks and playing fields, counseling centers, day care centers, and many more community based facilities for the Marine's and their families. I am a civilian providing the highest quality Architectural design and construction services I can to the Marine Corps and their families.
I know my job sounds evil and my job causes people to die daily without hope, by your standards. Oh well. I have to pay my bills just like the rest of the world. Buddhism is daily life.
Phillip wrote.."I don't think it's possible to even sustain life without making judgements."
Philip I would beleive this if I was judgemental too. I am not judgemental as those that know me know that. You do not know me, but you judge me. Congratulations!
I make it through life daly without judging others, unlike you admit you are incapable of the same. I know people that are like you and people that are like me. Both exist to me, but not to you.
Patrick wrote.."Have you ever served in any capacity of working for others, or just judging the actions of others?"
This is a question and not a swipe at your ego. Soldiers serve others and not their own agenda. Nichiren understood this and indicated as such in reference to parent, teacher, and soverign.
Individual actions constitute good or evil on and individual level and not job titles, social staus, or chosen field of endeavors; excepting illegal activities. On a societal level parent, teacher, and soverign come into realization.
Explain how Nichiren identified Shijo Kingo as one of his disciples even though he was trained and retained as a samurai; evil by Philips understanding.
Is Nichiren wrong and Phillip is right regarding the understanding of good and evil?
I follow Nichiren and not Phillip. I can read the Gosho, ongi kuden, etc. to learn the truth of these things or I can listen to Phillip's version of good and evil. I think I will stick with Nichiren. thanks for the viewpoint Phillip, but no thanks. I think I will not look at soldiers as evil people.
What about the president of the US; soverign; Good or Evil? Person or Postion.
Is it that George W. Bush is evil or is it the Office of President of the United States is evil?
No need to answer I already have my own answer.
Posted by: Patrick at July 11, 2007 05:12 PMI made the army let me out, therefore I say I never served. I hope that clears that up for you.
Nichiren told Shinjo Kingyo that he was an evil man for being a samurai (much less evil than the present military because in some sense he was defending his own homeland)and so his only hope as an evil person was to embrace the Lotus Sutra. I'll asssume all your questions were rhetorical.
Phillip wrote.."I made the army let me out"
Phillip, congratulations, but you still served even if you do not like the wording. In fact you made an active choice to join the Army and than later leave the Army of your own free will, unlike the draft of the 1960's and 1970's.
During my time; the draft; the only way out of service was death or jail. Perhaps all of us having no choice but service, created a choice for people like you to choose between service and no service, even after they erred in joining the service.
Telling me, I had a choice to run away is not a choice, and I would suggest you try taking your own advice before asking others to take it.
I have to live with my choice, you do not. You judging me reveals your actions and not mine.
BTW, using tha analogy of soldiers as evil, than the entire US government is evil and so are all the public servants from the GS1 to the President that support this one evil. All governmnent employees are evil by your analogy Phillip.
Patrick
Posted by: Patrick at July 12, 2007 06:28 PMNothing to say about Nichiren calling Shinjo Kingyo evil then. I didn't serve and I came pretty close to four years at Leavenworth before they decided I wasn't worth it. I spent a little time in jail or whatever you military types like to call it. I'd have to say my personal history isn't really the point though is it? The question is wether buddhists and other people of good concience should support the U.S. military. My emphatic answer is NO! You work for them and think supporting them is o.k. that's not unusual. So we are at coplete opposites on that issue, fine. You then went on to say that I shouldn't judge. I told you that was ridiculous. I said you have to make judgements all the time and you said that you don't. I'm not trying to call you a liar but if you think you don't make judgements every day then you either walk around blissed out all the time or you are just not very aware of your self. Vietnam was a huge mistake. I remember when I was a kid of eight and thought the war would go on forever, I told my mother that when I had to go as soon as I got some live ammunition I was going to shoot officers on our side. I feel sorry for anyone who served there and I respect anybody who went to jail for refusing to. Whatever his achievements in the ring, Mohammed Ali's refusing to be inducted is teh reason I consider him a hero.
Posted by: clown hidden at July 12, 2007 11:38 PMPhillip,
I am no military type, another assumption on your part. I am a government employee. Of course you can judge me as you wish, because that is your style.
Vietnam vets do not need your pity or sorrow. Respect for veterans would be more in line instead of calling veterans evil. When I returned home from Vietnam, an old lady spit in may face and called me a murderer, kinda like you are doing now. Like you, she had no clue to the veterans forced to fight in a war, ot what specific actions each of us is responsible to.
Posted by: Patrick at July 13, 2007 05:19 PMStill nothing to say about Nichiren telling Shijo Kingyo that he was evil. If I'm supposed to feel bad for you getting spit on I'm sure you know I don't it couldn't have done you much harm. Nothing that you have said even makes any sense. But Nichiren called Shijo Kingyo an evil man for being a samurai what could you think he would have said about what you were doing in Vietnam? What do you think he would have said about the United States invading Iraq? You just make judgements about me after claiming you don't judge. There is no reason to take your opinion seriously as it seems to have no basis in reality. When I said that I never served in the military even though I was in the army (which is true) you said it didn't matter if I was a civilian or not if I workrd for the military I was just as evil. When I used the word jail which is not the word they used (they actually told me I was in prison but that like most things they tell you is a lie) and said whatever you military types like to call it, then there is a distinction between you a civilian working for the military and the military types. But when I might have been a civilian working for the military in your mind you told me they were the same. Not only do you make judgements but you do it with what is known as a double standard. So to recap your whole argument about Nichiren's buddhism and not judging is just your imagination due to being uninformed. If you want to give me credit for serving the military I guess you can, but I will never say that I served in the military because I actually did not, but I can see that as a grey area hard to define. All your glorification of soldiers falls on deaf ears. Adversity builds character and soldiers will face adversity but that does not make what they are doing right or good. I'm simply pointing out that you are wrong about many things but I realize I'm just talking to myself, I don't think you are listening. Your mind is locked so tight with your own ideas of right and wrong that you don't understand anything I'm saying. Someday, maybe in another life, when soldiers come and burn down your village, murder your parents, and rape your sister, then you can sit and listen to someone tell you how great and noble it is to be a soldier. Perhaps then you will understand. So go build your pools, I hope the kids have fun, and I hope you get as much money out of them as you can.
Good-luck.
Nichiren is quoted saying [paraphrase]: "Because you carry weapons and kill people you are an evil man. Because you heal people you are a good man." He also
quotes the Nirvana Sutra which explain that good and evil are not just relative to one's occupation, but to how that occupation is used and not just to a superficial view of causality but to a deeper one.
A policeman is "good" when he helps someone cross a road, good when he protects someone from a murderer. Not so good when he kills a kid for pulling a toy gun out of his pocket unexpectedly.
Nichiren's letter to the mother of a disciple who died in battle is even more poignant about the subject. Causality is a matter of actions, circumstances, 3000 worlds. Those worlds interpolate and because of that even people who are somehow Buddha's living in this Saha world can do evil deeds or at least make mistakes from time to time.
Posted by: Chris at July 23, 2007 04:09 PM