Archetypes are something that religious thinkers talk about a lot. Joseph Campbell for example compared the arcthetypes of different religions and devoted entire Books to comparing and contrasting them. Thinkers and writers use these images to convey information intended to guide their followers. If one looks at religion, any religion, they all use these models and stories in a similar fashion. The hero is a "figurative embodying myth" used to convey the message desired by those teaching a person as a hero.
This is a well known reality, and the reality of religious thinking is exploited systematically by people who know this reality, so it is important that we understand what they are doing and why they do it, and then use these realities well.
Archetypes present moral teachers with a means to present difficult subjects in easy to understand forms. For example, to teach dependent origination one can draw stories from India, China or Japan, or one can draw similar stories from the culture of one's audiences, such as the Nasrudin stories.
They also present a way that teachers traditionally have "buried" heretical but true ideas within religious traditions by putting them into stories. The fanatics are usually to obtuse to pick up on the hidden message -- seeing what they want to see or even ignoring the discrepancies -- while ordinary folks pick up on the message unconsciously. This blog talks about this subject: http://www.anulios.org/index.php/page/6/. Anyone who has lived in or dealt with people from a country where there has been an authoritarian regime will know that this is also the way modern writers explore the truth.
So when Wikipedia refers to archetypes as "merely" something, there is nothing "mere" about the power of story telling
Archetypes are critical for our own spiritual (human) development. They actually contribute to defining personality. For example anyone familiar with the old Superman archetype (from the 50's series) will understand a lot about my own self image. When I was a child I thought if I believed enough I might even be able to fly. [I tried, I flew, I fell].
Wikipedia says:
Mastering Narrative, is not something that indicates complete enlightenment. Devadatta had mastered the power of religious language, imagery and skillful words. He came out of learning this to thinking that he could manipulate people and develop wealth and power. In our own day and age Marketers, Fascists, Leftists, and even the Republican Party, have mastered the power of narrative, and used the power of archetypes and imaging to manipulate people. We have government by focus group, and it is evil government because it has no moral compass.
The point is that we have to move from beyond a surface view of these things as mere methods for manipulating people, to recognizing that archetypes and myth represent an inward reality that is as important to us as it is to others. That is important to master, not to use and misuse, but to help people master their lives and society become peaceful. We need our inward myths to define our own motives, proper behavior, paths, and the bounds of what is right and wrong behavior.
We need to go from the power of authority based orthodoxy to the power of law based on correct views (true orthodoxy); and to take this authority out of the hands of selfish and authoritarian persons.
That's right Chris, the Buddha never authored anything, so how do you reconcile everything? That is what I referred to as Bodhisattvaism or Buddhism. If all this was made up by people, what was there before people made it up? I am sure the effect from everyone's great efforts in all the relgions would have been of value of something to point to? Everyone I saw that defended a sect or fanatical point of view became more and more sick. The Lotus Sutra itself promises lots of benefits, WHAT HAPPANED? I think its time to take off the blindfold.
Posted by: Bruce Maltz at September 20, 2006 09:16 PMThe sort of literalism "modernists" suffer from rejects dependent origination, the message, and the vehicle because of the delivery Bruce.
I would hold suspect any story that wasn't purely fictionalized. Why? Because the best, the purest stories, usually are idealized cases. The reality is always dirtier, and full of side-issues.
Who wrote the lotus sutra is a side issue. The fantastical vehicle of the story is also a side issue. What is essential is how folks in the past used the story, and how we use the story to explain dependent origination to people and get them to recognize its operation in their life.
Posted by: Chris at September 21, 2006 01:43 PMSee my post titled "Historicity and Religion" for more on this subject
Posted by: Chris at September 21, 2006 02:06 PM