Holte's corner

Getting at the truth

Clown writes on the previous thread (001133html):
> I will simply state that your saying something
> didn't happen and it's not having happened are
> not the same thing.

If something didn't happen, then it didn't happen. I cannot find any evidence anywhere, in any web-search of Hezbollah responding to an Israeli Incursion or of an incursion into Lebanon prior to the one into Israel. Hezbollah's excuse for the attack was Sheba farms, which was in dispute between Israel, Syria and Lebanon, but it wouldn't attack Syria or Lebanon about those farms because it doesn't consider those country "Kufra" by it's current authoritarian and aggressive standards. It chose to attack when it did precisely because Lebanon was doing better, because the US is hamstrung with its self-destructive efforts in Iraq, because Iran wanted to test its Rockets, and because Israel was duking it out with Hamas and its cheaper and smaller home-made rockets and attacks and counter-attacks.

In the real world people lie, cheat, and steal. People exaggerate their opponents peccadillos into major faults, and project their own feelings onto their opponents. People make enemies out of potential friends and then blame the resulting state of war on the people they attack. And finally people attack others repeatedly and then get mad when they get caught or fail to kill them. None of that makes their behavior right. Wishing a reality doesn't make a reality. Inventing a reality is not inventing reality, it is inventing a lie. Unless one can tell fiction from fact one cannot go from idealized vision into concrete reality. The tendancy to wish away inconvenient facts becomes to strong. The tendancy to scape-goat when things go wrong becomes unavoidable.

You have to know that there are Yahoo groups where people discuss their opinions on the subject quite openly and I read those opinions, and believe me they mean what they say and mean to do all who don't submit to their version of G-d's truth what they need to to make us all submit to their name for G-d. You have to know that already, so why invent a lie?

I know that you feel very strongly that Israel is the most evil country in the world next to the United States, but that feeling is no more objective than my fears that Iran means to test its next Missile and nuclear technology on the US or Israel. In fact I'm sure they'd like to, and that is why there are folks in the US who think we need to "take out" their installations developing those things. I don't think this is a good idea, because I'm realistic enough to know that the effort and pain required would not be worth it. We had better seek a rational path or we won't make it. We had better recognize the abusive reality of Islamic fundamentalism, argue with it, and contain it -- or the resulting state of war won't continue until God punishes the lot for their arrogance and hubris -- by letting them get what they say they want.

srael's situation for more than 50 years has been to suffer one attack after another. Sometimes the attacks have been genuinely provoked, most of the time the attacks were based on lies, flimsy excuses, and complete intollerance and labelling of Israel as a "Kufre" country. Israel has managed to parry off one attack after another to the point where for a time it forgot it was David and started to act like Golliath. In the middle of all that it built roads, factories, invested in people, things and industry, and it managed to become a first world country.

The Arabs have managed to make and export messes. Why the difference? Think about it. Moslems are involved in sectarian violence in every country where they live: India, Pakistan, Africa, Argentina, Britain, etceteras. When they don't justify it by calling their opponents kufre, they do so on the basis of religious differences and ideological purity. The only thing that Hamas and Hezbollah agree on is that Israel should be destroyed. Even before destroying Israel, these stiff-necked, hard-headed and hard hearted people prefer to fight each other. The US didn't have to fan flames of Shiite-Sunni hatred, all they had to display was a little bit of arrogance and hubris, the Iraqis did it themselves. And they all blame the US and Israel for their shameful behavior.

The only good thing about Hezbollah is that they seem to be learning from Israel. They talk about rebuilding their country, and when they do they talk about rebuilding it as Lebanon. I think that represents a positive shift. In past conflicts all they could talk about was rebuilding the means for Attacking Israel. Unfortunately they are rebuilding so they can attack again so they haven't gotten the entire point and they won't until they abandon fundamentalism and this current abusive and violent version of Islam they are teaching.

On my way to the Air-Port I talked to a guy from Nigeria. In Nigeria Moslems have a slim majority in the polls and are using that and their dominance of the military to ride rough-shod over the rest of the country. In Sudan Moslem is busy trying to massacre Moslem. Religion of Peace? What a joke!

I believe that Nichiren established a higher order of religious criticism than simply aimed at the four pillars of 13th Century Japanese society. To me his layer of Criticism was based on carefully examining the doctrine, practices, historical and documentary evidence of religion to ensure that it -- in fact -- corresponds to Buddhist Principles. This requires looking at religion from a deeper level than that of literal-minded acceptance/rejection of the surface teachings. From this point of view Islam is salve-ageable, but not as presently taught. A decent Islam would probably resemble current Ba-Hai or Sufi ideas, and would take a broader view of what is "kufre" and what is halaal. One could dialogue with such an Islam. But one can only engage and argue with the current version of Islam, and one certainly cannot apologize for or support the goals of imposing Shariah on Non-Moslems or even of the literalist and fundamentalist notions currently being propagated as Shariah.

I say "not as currently taught" because I have tried to talk to the current lot of Islamo-authoritarians, and they are too convinced of their dogma to even listen to a dialogue. The result ends up either being a shouting match or actual death-threats and warnings. The only thing to do with such people is to watch them and try to catch them breaking the laws of human decency and threatening to do actual violence so they can be prosecuted. When people transgress from evil thoughts to evil actions and intentions, that is not to be excused or supported -- but to be resisted. As some would say "they have bad guts." If we can resist them non-violently, maybe eventually they'll give up. But resist we must -- spiritually as well as physically.

At least members of the old PLO could sometimes be reasoned with. They even almost signed a peace treaty which would have given them 90% of what they wanted and made the other 10% possible -- and they refused.

So why defend Hezbollah and Hamas? They both transgress human norms, and their excuses are mere excuses for violence and authoritarianism. If they get their way women will be suppressed, ordinary people repressed, information restricted, and 9th century Ideals upheld. Not to mention that they will do to the middle east what they claim Israel did to them. Where is the wisdom or progress in that? Where is the joy in a nuclear Middle East? Does the higher authority really want this?

Posted by cholte at August 22, 2006 11:03 PM