A Byrd's Eye View

You want ideas on why the deafening silence? I don't know but I suspect it would take someone with a pretty thick skin to put up with the mass of messages that would inevitably come from people who don't like SGI, and filtering those out. It would also take a lot of time.

But I agree SGI-USA should sponsor an online blog, message board and/or chat room. They are missing a huge opportunity.

I agree and have brought this up at local meetings, but my area is quite rural and there are a good number of people who do not have regular internet access. I have also e-mailed the webmaster of the pathetic SGI website asking for some level of interactive content, and recieved no response.

A related idea I had came about while we were discussing going down to the regional meetings so that we could watch videos of President Ikeda. I mentioned (although I don't have a lot of interest in watching Ikeda videos) that it would be a great idea if the organization could make the videos accessible online. This was vehemently opposed by several older members. I asked why, and they told me "people could edit the videos and slander us and President Ikeda".
...
Maybe I'm naive, but are there really that many people who are anti-SGI? From hanging out here, I know that a lot of people don't like the organization, aren't in it anymore, but I can think of few people who would bother to edit Ikeda videos in the small online circle of Nichiren Buddhists. And I know that the rest of the world doesn't give a crap.

Here is something from an article in Wikipedia that I came across awhile ago which I thought might be of interest:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_intelligence

"Collective intelligence is an amplification of the precepts of the Founding Fathers, as represented by Thomas Jefferson in his statement, "A Nation's best defense is an educated citizenry." During the industrial era, schools and corporations took a turn toward separating elites from the people they expected to follow them. Both government and private sector organizations glorified bureaucracy and, with bureaucracy, secrecy and compartmentalized knowledge. In the past twenty years, a body of knowledge has emerged which demonstrates that secrecy is actually pathological, and enables selfish decisions against the public interest. Collective intelligence restores the power of the people over their society, and neutralizes the power of vested interests that manipulate information to concentrate wealth." [& power]

Thanks, Calvin - that was a very, very interesting article. I learn a lot from the people who write in here.

The internet is a tool, a powerful tool. As early as the late eighties, the SGI was writing articles criticizing the internet. The reason never really occured to me until 1996. The internet has been indispensible in revealing the truth of the SGI. They [the leaders] were afraid then and they are afraid now. Also, the SGI doctrine of "life to life" is a way to get around the thorny issues of the Succession Through the Scrolls of the Lotus Sutra and the authentic writings of Nichiren Shonin. Zen talks about a transmission outside the sutras and Nichiren says, referring to Zen but true about the SGI also,

“It speaks of transmitting something apart from the teachings. But apart from the teachings there are no principles, and apart from principles there are no teachings. Don’t you understand the logic of this, that principles are none other than teachings and teachings none other than principles?"

Nothing should be more important to a practitioner of the Lotus Sutra than the teachings of the Lotus Sutra and the authenticated texts of Nichiren Daishonin.

Finally, the leaders of the SGI are not well versed in the teachings of the Lotus Sutra or Nichiren Daishonin, vying with one another to learn the doctrines of the Human Revolution, New Human Revolution, and New, New Human Revolution.
In general, they get slaughtered when they come out of their pits.

Mark, disciple of Shakyamuni Buddha and Nichiren Daishonin

Byrd,
if you look at the SGI-USA website they offer a yahoo groups email group similar to SGUnofficial.

The SGI has an online presence just not how you may want the SGI online experience to be.

Follow the link at the SGI-USA web site for a link to a yahoo groups email discussion group, called gakkai spirit.

Mark your opinion of the SGI is not based on reality, but something else. I do not entertain your discussion because you are wrong on all points.

This post is for those wishing to dialogue within the SGI online, and not meant to argue with Mark and his opinion of the SGI which is incorrect.

Patrick

http://www.sgi-usa.org/thesgiusa/links/
the link to the group

Byrd,

A key to the answer to your question:

"Differences in opinion are something we sort of take for granted online. So, what's the worry? Why the deafening silence?"

...is in what Calvin quoted above, to wit:

"Collective intelligence restores the power of the people over their society, and neutralizes the power of vested interests that manipulate information to concentrate wealth."

Substitute "control" for "wealth" (although wealth is no small part of the equation, either). The emperors in Japan and their American vassals can't allow that.

It will ultimately lead to the undoing - or maybe better put, the calcification - of the SGI, but those folks can't see that. (Well, some of them do, but those aren't the ones setting the rules.) True interaction and open public dialogue and discussion can only lead to a revelation of the emperor's nakedness. That's why the IRG was so vehemently attacked. That's really the only thing we asked for.

Cheers!

Andy

Hi, Patrick - I thought the gakkai-spirit group was private, and moderated by Terry and Kathy Ruby - am I wrong about that?

I haven't seen a situation where Gakkai leaders make themselves available online. Not here or at the gakkai-spirit group. Have you seen that? Where?

Thanks, Wahzoh

Patrick wrote:

"Follow the link at the SGI-USA web site for a link to a yahoo groups email discussion group, called gakkai spirit."

You might want to be a bit more forthcoming, Patrick. That group is strictly moderated as to who may participate, and it does not allow any dissenting opinions or views that are in any way critical of the SGI, and it is private. By Byrd's definition, it does not qualify as an open blog space.

Also, unless it has changed, there is no official SGI leadership presence there, which is also part of what Byrd is asking for.

Cheers!

Andy

Hey Byrd,
Aren't there "leaders" aka people of responsibility from the SGI-USA blogging here in FWP? It takes a lot of personal quality control to be compassionately critical and encourage dialogue. Look how many people in this dialogue dug their heals in defending a position. I'm here because for now, I can't take this stuff "up the line". It wont fit through the funnel. What the World Tribune (or as I call it "LOJACK") needs is a section for humor or comics. But for now, the paper and the organization (how can I say this politely) is totally controlled by Japan. And everyone knows that there's nothing funny about human revolution. At least not portrayed by the Japanese. The smallest book in the world, the book of Japanese humor, never even got printed. (The editor didn't get the first joke and had to kill himself.) I agree with Vanya's first post. (But it's the last time I'm gonna.)

Andy,
I do not know of any organization that maintains an online presence 24/7 with leaders always ready for internet talk.

The gakkai spirit is an email group no different than the unofficial, except people are expected to be polite, cordial, and respectful, something that does not occur elsewhere, if you choose to disagree with a poster, like at unofficial.

You are right Andy, gakkai spirit is place where people talk with one another not argue with each other and name calling, etc. A place to communicate not challenge each other, in faith.

Patrick

Leadership in the SGI is voluntary, meaning the vast majority of leaders work for a living and donate their time after work hours for SGI activities.

I am not sure what is expected of having leaders online. perhaps a therapists might be better suited for the task.

My observation is folks are looking for someone to blame for their unhappiness.

I saw how the Unoffical folks tear into Eugene Hirahar's; Study Department Chariman; response to Michael Ryuie, and you want more of that activity online I guess.

Thick skinned online service.

Patrick

Hi, Joe - I'm sure you're familiar with the late, lamented Buddha Jones site - that had a lot of funny stuff on it. I agree with you about the Japanese comedy gap -- it really is huge. I think part of the reason is that they don't skewer their leaders in Japan. Taking the mickey out of someone involves the risk of that person's losing face, and that's not done. I love Iron Chef, but I'm not even sure that was initially intended as a joke.

As far as the online presence goes, and Patrick's coments. I don't mean that there has to be someone available for a 24/7 live chat. But the reality is that young people today get a huge amount of their information online. We don't have any kind of interactive staff presence at all. That's just plain odd, like driving a horse and buggy down the freeway.

The issue with Eugene Hirahara is a good example. If he has been free to discuss doctrine openly and publicly, we could have made some serious progress in interfaith discussion. Instead, the SGI published a Nichiren-Shoshu loyalty oath, Michael rebutted it, and then Eugene Hirahara had to go through someone else online (the Rubys) to even address the issues which Michael raised. It was just plain bizarre. He should have been able to engage directly, but he had to go through someone else. Anyway, tank for writing in, everyone...

Best, Wahzoh

Byrd,
I have no problems holding dialogue with Eugene Hirahara. All I have to do is go where he is, and ask my questions of him, and he answers me, or wait for him to come whewre I am. simple.

Whom should pay for the online volunteers to represent the SGI?

What shall the volunters say to questions they have to answer; i.e. Dai-Gohonzon, master/Disciple, etc.?

Does The catholic Church maintain an online chat group? How about the Mormons, Methodists, Muslims, etc.?

None of the above named groups hold online chat groups, so why should the SGI do as you want?

I notice this group; FWP; loves to make fun of the Japanese people. You call it fun I call it bias/racism.

Do you consider this a form of bias of just having fun at the expense of another ethnic group?

Patrick

"...SGI-USA, the one organization which is going to bring peace to our suffering planet by making Nichiren's practice of the Lotus Sutra accessible to everybody."

Byrd, your quote above sounds terribly exclusivist, and incongruous with your expansive sensibility. Other Nichiren groups' efforts to render the teachings accessible are just as meritorious in their fashion. (And, of course, sound non-Nichiren groups with or without a denomination are contributing as effectively to planetary peace.)

Thanks,

Gabrielle

Hi Patrick,

>

Did you do a Google search before you posted the above?

In a simple Google search I found:

http://www.lds.net/

which has blogs and forums

and

http://forum.catholic.org/

And I didn't look through all the items that came up.

Michele

Michele,
The Catholic forum is no different than gakkai spirit, which Andy says is inadequate.

No leadership leading the Catholic forums, just lay believers and moderators holding dialogue. I looked at the link, and that link has no leadership forums, just members dialogung no diferent than gakkai spirit.

Thanks for the link of lay followers, the same as the rest of us.

Patrick

Gabriele, my friend! I was being ironic!!!!

Of course other groups do good work....

Aye-yi-yi!!!

As far as the other groups having an online presence, I went to that Mormon site that Michele linked to, and found a speech to the graduating class at Brigham Young University...

"The emergence of New Media is facilitating a world-wide conversation on almost every subject including religion...may I ask that you join the conversation by participating on the Internet, particularly the New Media, to share the gospel and to explain in simple and clear terms the message of the Restoration."

Good gravy, the Mormon church is actually ENCOURAGING their young people to get online! We're having them go into secret huddles. Go figure.

Patrick, as far as Eugene Hirahara goes, the whole point is having an open and public dialogue where real issues are discussed, not private huddles. Take a look at that Mormon site. Nobody has to drive to Salt Lake City and go into a private meeting with anyone.

Re-read my blog entry entitled "That Darn Race Card". The issues being discussed are cultural, not racial. Bye for now, Wahzoh

Hi Patrick,

Gakkai Spirit is private. You have to be approved to be a member. The LDS and Catholic forums look pretty public to me.

Michele

Michele,
Catholic.org is heavily moderated and you can pose a questions to The Father, but membership is still required, as is registration.

Gakkai spirit is not private it is for SGI-USA members to dialogue and interact, just like other faith-based groups. Yes you have to appky for membership, but that does not mean membership is denied. I have been a member for years and I have met old friends from past times there.

You are free to join gakkai spirit as long as you are willing to follow the guidelines, as all members are required to do.

The SGI is volunteer leadership mnot paid, like the Catholic Church. My wife used to be Catholic as was/is her family.

Why should the leaders subject themselves to your online approvals? Leqders have members/responsibilities to care for and that is the reality, not cyber-members, real members over the phone or in person.

Byrd,
Eugene Hirahara visited Las Vegas and that is how I spoke with him. I was able to ask him many questions regarding what i have heard on the internet. Mr. Hirahara was very open and encouraging regarding my questions.

Most leaders visit members around the country in the District Meeting or the local Community Center.

I did not have to go to Santa Monica, Eugene came to me.

Regarding dialogue, perhaps similar to the Unofficial group treated Eugene Hirahara's response to Michael Ryuie, not very respectful, I might add.

I see when you belittle the Japanese you are encouraging them to improve by pointing out their failings, and you call that cultural in nature.

I am sure you have plenty of cultural advice for all the other cultures different from yours.

Where I come from we call it something else not cultural.

Patrick

Lacking a sense of humor may not be a cultural failing, you're right - many Americans suffer with that as well.

Have a good day, all. Thanks for the discussion, Wahzoh

It occurs to me that some people have yet to say anything original, constructive, insightful or anything. They seem to be just spoilers - who comes here to snipe at anyone who dares the besmirch the honor of his/her chosen sect. And if anything even remotely doctrinal comes up - all they does is parrot what their chosen authority figures have told them to say - regardless of whether it actaully checks out against the teachings of the Buddha, unimpaired and unbiased reason and critical thinking, or actualized liberative insight. I hope that more and more people learn to see through this.

Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
Ryuei

Patrick wrote:

"Gakkai spirit is not private it is for SGI-USA members to dialogue and interact, just like other faith-based groups. Yes you have to appky for membership, but that does not mean membership is denied."

Patrick, first, it IS private. Try to access its archives and postings if you are not a subscriber. Second, as to access, when I was a member in good standing of the SGI-USA, a district leader and active in my local organization, I applied to participate on GS and was denied, solely because of my participation with the IRG. I was completely willing to follow whatever rules and guidelines they had, and made that very clear. The person moderating at the time (sorry, I don't recall his name... it might have been Mark something) did not question my ability to follow the guidelines, but stated quite clearly that I was unwelcome because I was seen as somehow an "enemy of the SGI" by some members there, and was denied participation. Ask them.

Cheers!

Andy

Hey Byrd,

I'm glad for your irony - I'll know better next time!

Best,

Gabrielle

Andy,
All groups are private until you join, unless the group decides to be public like Unofficial does.

The blog was about there is no place for SGI members to interact. There is a place.

It was noted that other organizations provide forums. They do, but they are manned by laiety, just like the SGI. No direct access to the leadership just laiety holding dialogue.

Observing your posts Andy, I could say, that they/GS perhaps had the same attitude Greg had about his forum. Your information is dated and you are argumentative, and you do not add to the conversation, re: Dear John.

I can not say, but I knowIO try to avoid having arguments/dialogue with you becaues you like to call me names; Jello-Wall, True Believer; to name a couple. Ia sm sure this is your way, but not mine.

I am sure your recollection is accurate, regarding GS application.

My experience is you label those you disagree with and that does not make for dialogue, but plenty of fighting and arguing.

Not having ever met you personally, I can only look at what I see of the internet you.

I am sorry for your feelings towards me.

Michael,

when I see someone make what appears to be a racist statement, I will point it out to them immediately.

I have seen enough statements on FWP that say Japanese people do this or that. Those are racist statements, vice saying Patrick does does this or that. Quite different.

Understand the diference?

Geraldine Ferrarro commented recently, that being a black man for Barrack is a good thing for the Barrack campaign. That is a racist statement as well, and I am glad it is being addressed.

Barrack can not change his skin color, but perhaps his personality makes the difference and not his skin color.

Anyone that says, any group always does anything, I acknoowledge the racism in that type of statement.

I just offer my view of things and not saying your view is wrong just different than mine.

Patrick

Byrd,
I noted some comments over on the SGU board about how some folk would love to see more positive posts on what local groups are doing in the SGI. Do you think this antipathy towards the internet is part of the reason you don't see a slew of posts concerning exciting activities SGI members and groups are up to? I don't know if that is why. If so, it seems sad for the SGI to curtail such a wonderful way to communicate the strengths and beauties of a strong and flourishing practice.

Just curious,
Kris