A Byrd's Eye View

Byrd,
I think the issue you comment about on one of the other yahoo groups; SGU; has more to do with people than buddhism.

I find the groups making fun of various religious leaders; SGI, NSS, NS, etc.; are lacking respect for others organizations and perhaps more.

I do not think it has to do with Nichiren Daishonin's teachings, but peoples karma involved with practicing on-line. argumentative at least, hurtfull at best.

Oneupmanship at work.

I moved on to a more peacefull practice than arguing with others about doctrinal issues or organizational issues such as exhists at the SGU yahoo groups.

Patrick

Thanks, Patrick - I feel the same way, and it generally gives me good feelings and hope for the future. I just felt kind of bummed out over the upsurge in remonstration that happened over at the SGU Board.

Thanks, truly - although I know we have had our differences, I am comforted by your perspective.

Best, Byrd in LA

I don't think this phenomenon is particular to Nichiren Buddhists, I think it relates to all who hold a certain dogma to be supreme. And really I think it is a by product of western philosophy being so influenced by Aristotle. It has been very important to find the one true religion that is why in th ewest so many have died in the name of religion (and a lot of people are tired of the fighting). Nichiren Buddhism especially from the Nichiren Shoshu and SGI perspectives is just prime for this and I think as westerners many of us are ready to pick up where the battles of which church is correct left off.
ch

Byrd --
Should Buddhism be practiced as a Martial Art?
Can World Peace be attained by shakubuku-ing (trans: breaking and subdueing) everyone who disagrees with an error-prone "leader"?
I doubt it.

Can the Japanese understand any other kind of life-philosophy?
Maybe, eventually.

My theory is that as long as baby boys outrank their mothers in family hierarchies, they never internalize self-control or respect for others' rights.
Suddenly, as 6-year-old schoolboys, they are brutally socialized by bigger bullies. Thereafter, they will be bossed by higher powers, never given choices -- or responsibility -- for their behavior.

Where dominance is not clear and present and unified -- well, consider the riotous fistfights during debates in the Japanese Diet (Congress).

And the reason the Japanese government wants tourists to travel only in groups.. . independent tourists often damage hotel rooms while beating up prostitutes.

This could change if and when mothers become more respected -- not only permitted to give direct orders to their sons, but allowed to compel some obedience. They could instill in their youngsters a not-situational awareness of "right" and "wrong" behavior that is common in the rest of the world.

Barbara

I know that the problems with Japanese culture are a favorite topic for you,Barbara - but the person who was engaging in all this rebuking was a Westerner. Most of the people who fought the 'war" with Nichiren Shoshu in the West were Westerners. Most of the people who still flog this thing at the US national level are Westerners. Go figure. Byrd in LA

Wow, Byrd -

Thanks for the great visual! Now anytime I feel the impulse creeping up, I will be thinking of dayglo green spew worthy of the head-spinning scenes from "The Exorcist". If that doesn't help keep me mindful, I don't know what will!

Namaste, Engyo Mike Barrett

I like to think most of these combative Nichiren Buddhists are just wacko. Combine that with the anonymity of the internets and you've got fireworks. The majority of Nichiren Buddhists are not this way. Don't you think so?

Yeah, I like to think so, too, Vanya. I just got so bummed out by that business that I had to puke. Thanks for bearing with me. Best, Byrd in LA

To Barbara,
Hey, I'm one of the first to jump on the bandwagon of not importing Japanese dysfunctions over here. BUT - I think you have gone a bit overboard. You seem to think Japanese men are all a bunch of swaggering misogynistic rapists. I have not at all found that to be the case. The Japanese men that I have met have almost all been gentlemen in the old meaning of that time. I also watch a lot of Japanese dramas and I do not see misognyny being portrayed. A lot of nerdiness and shyness and tough guy acts on occasion - but never the kind of violence you see directed at women on American t.v. (at least not the shows my wife watches). Certainly Japanese society is much more patriarchal than some Western democracies (though the USA is a lot more patriarchal in many respects than even some 3rd world countries I think). But I don't think it is necessary to demonize the Japanese male. That is unwarranted and does not match my experience or even my wife's experience. I thihnk too many people have some image of how Japanese behave based on that old miniseries "Shogun", but based on my experience with the Japanese over the past 15 years and more - they are not like that anymore if they ever were. Frankly, some of the things my wife has seen around here in regard to how women are treated have astounded and dismayed her.

Also - there are some dynamics between men and women in Japanese society that are quite different than in the USA. There is a different balance of power. Women may not be equal in our sense of equality - but they are far from powerless. You should speak to Japanese women and get their perception of things - esp. those who have been able to compare women's power and powerlessness in the USA.

I think the bottom line is that when it comes to misogyny - we Americans shouldn't throw stones in or from our glass house.

Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
Ryuei

In regard to the nuttiness of some Nichiren Buddhists - I honestly believe that certain organization seek such people out, cater to their biases, and even promote them because of and not in spite of their fanaticism.

In general, however, what I have seen among most tradition Buddhist groups (Nichiren Shu, the Zen centers and groups, Tibetan groups, Vipassana groups) is that they do not appeal to such personality types, they do not want to appeal to such personality types, such personality types are disapproved of, and they certainly would not be promoted to the status of leaders or teachers. Furthermore, they are usually treated with disdain and if they cause too much trouble are quietly asked to leave. They don't get very far in traditional Buddhist groups. Maybe this is lack of compassion? Maybe it is good sense not to cater to such people to the detriment of more mature practitioners.

I know that when such people come around to our temple or Faithful Fools we will be as welcoming to them as to anyone else, but as soon as they become pushy or boorish or try to monopolize our time or try to get into beligerent debates, we politely inform them that they are going to have to be considerate of others. We try to bring things around to a more equitable, civil, and reasonable way of being together where everyone is respected. But if they cannot do this, then it is made clear in a polite but firm way that perhaps they had better go somewhere else - as waht they are looking for is not with us. I can only think of one or two occasions where it ever even got to that point. Most of the time, such people see that we are not going to take their bait and deprived of the sustenance of unwarranted attention they simply leave and don't come back. Thankfully, this has not happened all that often. Most who even take the time and trouble to seek out traditional forms of Buddhism have already reached a certain stage of maturity, spiritual and otherwise or they would not have the wherewithal to come around in the first place. So the dynamic is different than with people who have just been grabbed in off the street.

Is our approach elitist? Not purposefully no. But it does seem to be spirituality for, by, and of the spiritualy mature. The result is a Sangha of people who exhibit a certain amount of maturity and keeps at arm's length those who would use the Dharma for the purposes of egotism, tribalism, and other belligerent agendas. All are welcome to join us - but those who don't like our more civil and reasonable style are also welcome to move on - like the 5000 in chapter 2 of the Lotus Sutra who were so sure they had nothing more to learn.

Namu Myoho Renge Kyo,
Ryuei

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Wow! Next time I want to remonstrate, all I have to do is meditate on Day-Glo puke, and I will find the peaceful mind I'm seeking.

But seriously - one of the serious hurdles I have personally faced is that it seems to me that Nichiren Buddhists (specifically of the Shoshu and SGI schools) are so belligerent and so proud of it. It's made me concerned that perhaps there is some deep flaw in Nichiren Buddhism.... but upon pondering it, I am not certain it's a flaw in N. Buddhism per se; I have begun to wonder if the belligerence stems, to a great extent from how it is specifically taught in those schools.

For instance, if members are taught that one can divine doctrine personally without serious study, just by what is intuited by chanting, then I think some people's lower worlds can take command. I know in some SGI subcultures I've encountered this type of thought, and people who are truculent and war-like coming into the SGI "chant" about how to treat those who disagree with them, and feel free to brawl (for want of a better word) with people that disagree with or don't toe the Gakkai line as that individual interprets it.

And I think that concept of "fighting daimoku" (which you've discussed) is often taken a bit too far and often inappropriately by some members.

Is there a place at the American Religious Table for Nichiren Buddhists?

Yes, but perhaps only those groups that act with manners and don't have to start food fights.

Peas be with you.
Kris

That's a good point, Kris - and another is that in the SGI, it was taught for so long that "benefit" would result from remonstrating. Chant to defeat Nikken in order to overcome your cancer, and all that. I think there are definitely those who have come to believe that not only are remonstrating and rebuking "fundamental" to Buddhism, but that they will actually be able to buy blessings for themselves with this kind of behavior.

Sort of like how you could get into heaven by doing a crusade against the infidel Turk and re-capturing Jerusalem. Only with words.

I just think it's interesting how we manage to make hostility into a sacred duty. I guess it is a human thing, and not only a Nichiren Buddhist thing. I don't know if that is comforting or not.

Byrd in LA

Hi Byrd,

I think that those members who remonstrating and challenging others to dialogue, don't study the Goshos of Nichiren and writings of Daisaku Ikeda.
In volume 1 of the Human Revolution, we see the same thing happening. After being released from prison, president Toda recognized that most members who left the organization, when both Makiguchi and Toda were arrested, didn't study the Gosho and only chanted Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo. Toda urged the members to study.
Only by studying the Gosho we can understand better what Nichiren meant. Thus becoming a better person and become a Buddha. Chanting alone is not enough. We also need to study the Gosho and the commentaries written by President Ikeda.
Greetings,
André de Wit

Fighting is easier than Talking

Fighting is easier than talking -- until somebody starts to get hurt.
It's easy to be brave, when no one is bleeding in the dirt.
When all are kneeling in ashes and mud on the ground,
It is easy then to talk of world peace.

I see the trees struggling, I hear the naked sound.
The cold winds blowing clouds across the blackened sky.
I warn of naked children, of people gone before their time.
I warn of the dangers of blindess, of cliffs, bombs and crime.

But its not enough.

The peaceful warriors ball their fists and fight for supremacy.
In the name of the Dog God Devil; Dog-ma,
They stare one eyed and cock their faces.
Talk of dialog and peace, and throw glass stones.

It all started as play --
"we'd have world peace one day
We'd all be enlightened and brave,
If only other people would think like We"

It would be a wonderful food fight --
if they weren't so intent on killing...

And what? Over what?
What religion are they superior to?
No warrior of Allah can match their fanaticism.
No Jew wailing at his wall, can outdo this narrative of victimization
No man gambling in a casino can best this devotion to winning
No Christian can more betray his masters,
then these "warriors" of Soka.

Oh take an old wounded man on your shoulders,
parade him in his shame on the streets.
He was an old dog and ill, you were a pack,
and now you see enemies everywhere staring you back.
It was his religion that you defended
for all that you hunted him on the hill.
Where once there was pity and compassion,
the eyes are smoky and black
and there is no going back.

Where once there was hope and the Mystic Sutra,
there is now a movement seeking out enemies to defeat.
Where once you marched forward, now you are in full retreat.
And I am no more angry at you, than at an army of lemmings,
Is this where your master leads you?
To realms of megalomania and fear?
I don't think so.
It is just that nobody can tell you no.

Chris

Yes Byrd, the rebuker in this case is a westerner, however, he appears to be someone who apparently over identified with aspects of the Japanese culture that were imported with the practice. It's kind of like stories you hear about different animals and insects that come in with cargo on freighters. They hop off and integrate themselves into the population. You came into the Gakkai some years after they had ceased promoting really intensive Japanese like behavior. The behavior was stopped, but not necessary the belief system that came with it. That's one of those little microscopic animals that can only be seen under a microscope. You get my drift.

Ashley

The SGI is right about one thing, there is something in Nichiren Buddhism worth fighting for. Too bad they got it all wrong and what they fight for is the pride and ego of their master. I fight for the recipe that Nichiren left us. I fight that its not too late that the game of telephone hasn't screwed up the recipe too badly. I fight that the Nichiren Buddhists stop playing telephone and go back to the Sutra.

Fresh air - just as I was choking in some fundamentalist SGI miasma. If another "leader" turns off another new or prospective member...And am I alone in thinking the term "leader" needs to be replaced? (ie:facilitator or administrator) or a term that doesn't imply that the rest of the people in the room are "followers." I've seen the look on the faces of members who have been practicing a long time but never appointed to "leadership" positions. The expression "Master" (and Disciple) was amended to "Mentor" for reasons so obvious it shouldn't have happened in the first place. Words count - as chanting Buddhists should know. I'm here because no one else seems to be listening. Thanks. Barbara_

Hi, Barbara - I like the term "deputy colonial governor" myself (said with a half-joking tongue in cheek).

Anyway, glad you're here. Welcome and feel free to chime in any time.

Best, Byrd in LA